Has No one Noticed the Link...?

[AndSoFinally]

A Million threads on here about the planned cuts to disability benefits

Is no one else slightly concerned about the concurrent discussions about the Assisted Dying Bill? Does this not seem like the beginnings of a dystopian PD James novel?

I haven't seen any other thread mention this but I'm quite concerned about the direction of travel here

So even though when this is happening in Canada you somehow think our government is miraculously trustworthy and won’t take advantage of assisted dying to add in euthanasia for those who are disabled/ mentally ill/ vulnerable/inconvenient like Canada has? Oh to be so naïve!

Exactly this for me too. I also don't want to just exist if I get dementia. Once I don't know who my kids are, as far as I am concerned, there is just no quality of life, it's just existing for the sake of it. I'd rather not be such as drain on my family and society.

All the countries that started with it, @Coffeeishot , started apparently small and reasonable. Then we end up where they are.

So you’re denying it happens in Canada and the Netherlands?

There are several articles about this, it’s not conspiracy. I find unquestioning attitudes like yours rather worrying.
Brings to mind that quote - The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

The awfulness is the fact that there is no assisted dying element. There are some conditions and diseases that are horrific and no amount of palliative care is going to fix that.

I share your views iPadMum. I was horrified when I heard about Canada.

Ageism a thing.

Disablility discimination a thing.

Coversive control is a thing.

I have personal experience of medical professions dismiss me and family because I'm a woman or with fmaily old- and from threads on here not alone in that.

Other countries have have mission creep - Candian especailly so.

Perceptions can also change - which many on here can't fathom - many people say they don't want to live paralyzed but then when worst happens the brain protects them and their perception shifts.

I don't want people to suffer or linger in pain but I don't want people killed unnessaraily - is assisted dying the answer - well to some other answers could be expanded hospice care and more development of pain relief protocols even if it costs the person time.

If we can't even raise and discusss potential pit falls - they are much more likely to happen.

I watched A warning from History and according to them the killing of disabled program started when a father wrote to Hitler asking to euthanised his proufoundly disabled son out of love - he was obviously pushing at an open door there - and I'd like to think even the most heartless UK government is not that cynical and evil but the road too hell is paved with good intentions.

If we are to have assisted dying then I want rock soild safe guards and people mointoring people administrating the scheme and both looking for pitfalls- and I want it independent of current government policies and finacial concerns and I want safe guards against mission creep. I also want better deaths for bulk of people who won't use this scheme.

Some don’t back it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/24/disability-rights-campaigners-urge-mps-peers-back-assisted-dying-bill

No one has the right to dictate. They are two entirely separate issues. The right to live should not come at the expense of the right to die. There is always the risk with abortion that people will be pressured but the solution to that is not that people can’t have one.

Assisted dying is about dying in peace. It is not about living with a disability.

There is already a right to die. Suicide is not illegal.

Assisted dying isnt evil

Oh come off it. Not the same thing at all.

Because nothing whatsoever has already happened in real life that could possibly be compared with 1984?

So are you a conspiracist who refuses to accept that Canada and The Netherlands exist? I thought it was normally Finland, but maybe it's spread...?

PD James?

Yes, isn't it Children Of Men with the forced euthanasia once you get to 70?

The assisted dying discussion has been going on for a very long time. It isn’t a new thing.

Not sure if this is meant to be a joke, but I don’t understand.

I agree, with tight safeguards and completely outside any influence of the government who can’t help but serve their own interests.

I believe in Canada assisted dying had wholesome, caring roots. Now they offer it to those facing homelessness, those with disabilities, the very things those of us against it are worried about.

If there was a stone clad guarantee that it was for terminally ill patients only who have made the decision with 100% sound mind, no coercion, no feeling like a burden, but a clear wish to end their own suffering, then yes I’d be for it. Sadly it opens doors to a wider audience who couldn’t make the decision with the above criteria.

I'm genuinely not a conspiracy theorist, far from it, but I do work with disabled and mentally ill people. Many already feel worthless and like a huge burden, if you now detract from their quality of life you've got two of the three major risk factors for suicide right there (diagnosed MH condition, feelings of worthlessness/hopelessness). They might not meet criteria for assisted dying at the moment but that's because these things have to be introduced slowly, bit by bit, in order to be accepted. The AD Bill we have proposed right now won't be the end of the story, it'll just be the thin end of the wedge. As others have said, look at the expansion in Canada.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion and interpretation around the intent of UK private member led Assisted Dying Bill. You are also perfectly entitled to your opinions around how the implementation assisted dying legislation is happening in other countries (though no mention of Oregon?).

I dont have to agree with your sweeping generalisations and interpretations whilst recognising that any legislation can lead to unintended consequences and implementaion needs to be carefully monitored and reviewed.

I believe it is cruel and unnecessary to make individuals travel to Dignitas, either alone or leaving those accompanying them open to prosecution. I would like assisted dying to be legally available in the UK

This is what the Netherlands women who chose euthanasia said:

'She said it was understandable that cases such as hers – and the broader issue of whether assisted dying should be legal – were controversial. “People think that when you’re mentally ill, you can’t think straight, which is insulting,” she told the Guardian. “I understand the fears that some disabled people have about assisted dying, and worries about people being under pressure to die.
“But in the Netherlands, we’ve had this law for more than 20 years. There are really strict rules, and it’s really safe.”

This woman had been suffering since early childhood - so 20 years plus. She had tried everything, intensive treatments, medications, years of talking therapies, even electric shock treatments.

Why would you force someone who has been struggling and desperately unhappy for years and years to keep being miserable because you're more comfortable with that? The alternative was that she was going to commit suicide - would people be happier with that outcome?

If people are homeless, have addictions they've battled for years and are completely unable to overcome, have no one they care about or that cares for them, no enjoyable quality of life, just surviving day to day, checked out of life and no interest in conforming - why should they be forced to go on if they don't want to? Why should the choice be to live like that or commit suicide that can go wrong in a hundred different horrible ways?

No one has the choice to be born or not, everyone should have the choice to die in a safe comfortable place - whether that makes other people feel uncomfortable or not. Why do people think they should get to decide that others have to live on in misery because that person's choices make them uncomfortable?

Honestly there's so much nonsense on here - who are you to tell someone with a horrible disability who may be in constant pain and mental anguish that they need to be brave and carry on because you don't think it's right for disabled people to have the right to choose to die.

You don't have to choose this - but how dare you tell other people they shouldn't have the right because it doesn't sit comfortably with you.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/dutch-woman-euthanasia-approval-grounds-of-mental-suffering

I was open to the idea but I do have very strong concerns about the current bill and Leadbeater's trashing of so many safeguards.

My DM suffered depression for years and may well have thought she would want assisted dying if she had known she would end up in a care home with vascular dementia. In fact, she was very happy and contented during those years and had a very high quality of life.

I found the case of the euthanising of a disabled child in The Netherlands (I think) extremely concerning, it illustrated just how quickly all boundaries and safeguards can disappear once something becomes accepted.

You don't have to choose this - but how dare you tell other people they shouldn't have the right because it doesn't sit comfortably with you.

I'm really not against AD, it just feels like a very convenient solution to a problem that we are about to create, for a group of people who wouldn't necessarily have considered it before.

Time will tell

So you'd rather they just had the choice of carrying on feeling worthless, a burden and miserable for the rest of their lives - or commit suicide. I've worked with seriously ill people and been related to a few and none of them ever thought of suicide or wanting to die, they were desperate to live. So why shouldn't those who are desperately unhappy for years and years to the point where they're considering suicide not get to die in a decent way?

Why are people so desperate to force other people to endure miserable lives for decades more or have to commit suicide? I just don't get it at all.

I'm not going back to check, but I'm fairly sure it has been mentioned on every single thread this past week about the disability benefit cuts.