7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

At least one poster on this thread thinks tax evasion is ok though. People are hypocrites.

All benefits have become harder to get or less generous. Think child benefit too. I guess my feeling is that there is little left to take from benefits without extreme measures that caused more pain than gain. And now it's time to look to the super rich and powerful.

Yes. DD1 is 19 and has been to special school since age 4. The other two were completely and utterly failed at mainstream and suffered hugely as a result, to the extent that no mainstream could meet their needs so they are at special schools.

If there was help available via CAMHS or other organisations for these mental health conditions that children have I'm sure there would be less need for so many to be on DLA, or on PIP once they reach age 16 because they could have recovered with treatment .

I know not all mental health issues are treatable, but those that would benefit from a few years or months of therapy, yes.

So many people are looking for what sounds like a superior race. In fact, why don’t we just line all disabled people up against the wall and finish them off once and for all?

Trust me, I didn’t expect to be reliant on benefits at the age of 53 after spending 30 years working my way up to Senior Management.”

Don’t worry though I’m not expected to see Christmas so that’s one off the begging list!

But if they’re stealing taxes then they are actually a drain on public money.

It’s not rude to tell someone who clearly knows nothing about the system except their own prejudices to educate themselves. You are demonising disabled people and assuming a lot of things that you have zero evidence for so you can expect people to challenge you.

Questioning why the number of claimants of sickness and disability benefits have increased by a third in 5 years, doesn’t make you a proponent of eugenics.

Honestly we've become a nation of wet wipes.

It’s just really basic common sense , more people claiming sickness and disability benefits so clearly the cause is more illness and the NHS not being good enough. CAMHS has been shocking for years. Pain clinic referrals are taking ages and that’s even if you can get a referral. Waiting times for SALT, physio and OT are awful and parents have to go private.

It’s always been the case that A and E is misused and that’s because people get desperate they can’t get help or appts or treatment so it’s a last resort. The problem is the nhs not being fit for purpose

It’s obvious why. It’s because Covid has caused LT health conditions, has worsened MH conditions and because the last government ran the NHS into the ground, leaving many people requiring treatment unable to get it.

This is what Rachel Reeves has said, I’m not making it up and misrepresenting as fact.

I am not sure why @Itsalljustinmyhead thinks this is so unusual. Disabilities very often have a genetic component, and that was as true in the past as it is now. So yes, if you have one child in special school it is more likely that subsequent children may also need to attend special school.

I know you know this @Lougle, but the level of ignorance on these disability posts is driving me crazy!

Anyone who kept voting Conservative, what did you think would happen to the NHS eventually? Things went from bad to worse and people still kept voting them back in.

@MidnightPatrol Again this can be applied to everything. I can sit here and pick anything such as free prescriptions for pensioners. It's completely unsustainable. Pointing out problems is super easy. Even if you did clamp down on these benefits, I think the problem of the young having MH issues probably won't abate. Because this isn't the cause. More to do with social media, modern society and poverty/inequality.

@MidnightPatrol Thanks for sharing.

Unfortunately, high emotion always seems to creep in immediately. I don't think anyone wants to take away support that is genuinely needed. There was a discussion about this on Nicky C on Radio 5 Live earlier and there were so many 'I am in a wheel chair' people calling in. It's not about THEM.

However, I also think that with the vast increase in mental health issues in the younger population, we need to re-evaluate our tendency now to pathologise the normal, human variation and life struggles.

I think it's much better to frame things as 'I'm having an off day or tricky time as my x died' rather than saying 'I have depression'.

OR

'I'm a bit shy and nervous in new situations', rather than 'I have an anxiety disorder'.

Labels are constricting rather than liberating in many cases.

As someone who had a my close family member suffering with true, debilitating mental health issues, I'm glad it's no longer stigmatised. But I think the pendulum has swung too far.

For what it's worth, I really believe having a set schedule is particularly helpful for those with e.g. depression. Seen it first hand (personal & work).

It's very easy to tick the boxes for some of the disability benefits - I've helped people fill forms out and you very quickly figure out what you need to put down (in these cases the need was genuine but you can see how it can be easily faked).

Also, the increase in anxiety/ADHD/learning difficulties - and especially private assessments. I honestly don't know anyone who has gone for an assessment and not come out with a condition and 25% extra time in exams (my kid included). Again that is not to say that many conditions are 'real'. Sadly, those who are in real need often don't get the support they need.

But often when things like free prescriptions for pensioner or similar is raised people will
say that means testing will cost more than any saving…. Probably the same people who won’t care what the cost is to reassess any current PIP or LCWRA claimants as it will supposedly be worth it.

Under the NHS, it has taken 2 years for DD3 to be diagnosed with ASD. Her OCD was 'diagnosed' after a year, but the outcome was 'we'll put you on a waiting list for a therapy that we know isn't suitable, but she has to fail that before we can put her on the waiting list for the thing that could work, and we know she needs medication, but we can only put her on that waiting list once we've done the other two things.' After I got a private consultation with a Consultant who works for CAMHS in his normal working week, she got a formal diagnosis and treatment, then CAMHS agreed that perhaps she should have been on the psychiatry waiting list after all. She then got an appointment 4 months later, with a new junior doctor who said that all he could do is take notes of her history and chat with his consultant.

The NHS is amazing when it works, but it's overwhelmed and it's broken. Then people wonder why young people can't cope.

As medical science continues to improve, more people are surviving/living longer with conditions that would have previously killed them/shortened their lifespan to a greater extent.

At the same time, a lot of people have poor health due to a variety of lifestyle factors.

People in deprived areas are more likely to experience poor health.

Reducing deprivation and improving the NHS, including mental health services, so they can focus on preventative health is much more likely to cut benefits that just making people who are currently sick and disabled worse off.

There are after school and holiday clubs that will take disabled children, including those who need 2:1 care. A special school near to me is starting its own after school club, based on the successful model of an after school/holiday club about fifteen miles away which takes both SEN and non-SEN children - so all siblings in a family can attend the same club.

They're scarce, and places are hard to get, but they do exist.

I would argue that we need more of this sort of provision.

Do you think the NHS is in a good state? I bet you don’t.

As others have mentioned there are many other factors too, like structural changes to benefits, long covid and MH issues that may be a legacy of covid, worse health outcomes across the board (possibly due to changes in diet and lifestyle), aging population and higher pension age.

Do you think these collectively might account for more of the rise than a steep uptick in fraud?

I do believe there is some fraud, as in any system. I am not sure why anyone thinks it’s the key thing given the number of other significant factors at play.

@LoztWorld I haven’t suggested the issue is fraud.

Quite 👏👏

It also massively increased waiting lists. I would be one of those on sickness benefits if I hadn't funded my own operation privately - I was at the point of having to give up work before I had the hysterectomy, and would have had to wait a further 18 months on the NHS (on top of several years of investigations and waiting already). If I hadn't had the funds to pay to keep myself in the workforce, I would absolutely be jobless now.

It’s true that you have to use certain words to describe how your condition affects you but that is not the same thing as lying
It's not about lying, it's about what applicants leave out, what they focus on, what they are selective about.

An instance would be to say that someone is unable to cook a full meal and their partner have to do so, which isn't a lie, but fail to clarify that their partner were always the one cooking and that set within their marital division of duties, and that was in place years before they became disabled.

It isn't rubbish! There are many people playing the system and it is the genuine people who don't that usually get zero points because they don't know how to answer the questions asked to get the points.

@MidnightPatrol if I understand correctly, the UK is fairly average in terms of it’s welfare support of disabled people. But I’ve been reading about some really interesting models. Some countries don’t pay cash, they provide access to service in kind - medical services, counselling, respite, continence products, food. Whatever is needed but not money. And I think in terms of resetting the UK - this might work to some degree because people who want the cash won’t be able to get it and the people who need the services will. It would require significant change to improve services to achieve it though which I’m not sure is possible.