7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

DLA has different rates. We are not just talking about ‘severely’ disabled children. The 1 in 12 includes all children receiving DLA including those who get the lowest payment, for lower and milder needs and is less than Child Benefit.

I don’t see it as shocking to say on average 2 children in each classroom have some sort of disability/difficulty/health condition that makes them eligible for at least Low-Rate DLA (which again is less than child benefit!)

But it is nebulous. Nobody can even seem to agree what ASD is. The symptoms are so wide that it’s basically anything outside a very narrow stream of ‘NT’ behaviour.

I believe the expression is ‘ad hominem’

There shouldn’t be payments for ‘mild needs’.

Quoting @Bumpitybumper :

Lots of people make a judgement that the difficulty and hardship of working simply isn't worth it if they can lean into these difficulties and end up better off on benefits. I'm not saying that their ailments are completely manufactured but ultimately we all know that the grey area exists because many of us live in ourselves. You have a choice each morning whether to push through or give in. Too many people are giving in and it's making the whole system unaffordable and unsustainable.

Two points. Firstly, how do you know how 'lots of people' are reasoning?

Secondly, if the parlous benefits currently paid leave people 'better off on benefits' than working, perhaps salaries need to go up? Setting aside the point already made, that many of the benefits listed by OP are not out-of-work benefits.

My experience is as random as the next person's, but the people affected by long-term illness who I know are typically desperate to keep working to the best of their abilities. The difficulty is getting support to do so.

But some of the claims will be 'small' the lowest would be £28.70 a week.

Remember we give all first born child £26 a week (if parents don't earn too much).

I suppose because my son is at a special school and i work in a school, 1 in 12 doesn't seem that outlandish.

I was responding specifically to a post where the poster said we couldn’t afford to support those in genuine need.

You are quoting rough (very rounded-up) figures for highest rate DLA. A child awarded this will have extremely significant care needs, including physical care needs. No-one is getting that for being unable to sit still in class or whatever.

That poster’s implication was that we might be in a scenario where we can’t afford to support such children (“people in genuine need”), and that is where we would see extreme deprivation amongst disabled people as we did in the past.

We can always afford to support genuinely disabled people. It’s a question of choices.

No one is better off on benefits.

That is the issue, how do you decide who is deserving. The money I get goes towards travel costs for hospital treatment and private physio and massage to help with symptoms. I caught the tail end of a news broadcast and it seemed they were highlighting the amount of people with mental health or anxiety that are claiming. Though the process to claim PIP is very rigorous, so find it hard to believe there are many people getting it that don’t need it.

The problem with your point is that it can be applied to anything. What's the biggest drain on public finances? State pensions. We have an aging population so this problem is getting worse. Perhaps we need to look at which pensioners over 80 are deserving. After this age most of what they've paid in has been used up so 🤔

I'm joking of course.

It’s true that you have to use certain words to describe how your condition affects you but that is not the same thing as lying.

And DLA applications ask for the child’s school so that they can contact school to verify what the child’s needs are. Are you saying that teachers lie too? How would that benefit them? Most usually, the DWP will want to also see diagnosis reports. Even though they say that it’s based on needs, not diagnosis.

One of my children gets middle rate care. She’s 15 now and still can’t tie shoelaces. She has dyspraxia and autism and she still doesn’t understand how to use money either. She is more like an 8 year old emotionally. I had support from medics, supportive statements from school and her claim was still turned down and we had to go to tribunal. This all took well over a year.

The issue of the rising cost of pensions is often discussed - and policy changed as a result.

That’s why the pension age keeps going up.

1. I know people personally that have done this. There are many other cases posted on threads like this.
2. No, that's not how it works. If you increase wages then it fuels inflation. We also magically can't increase wages in real terms in a globalised economy. We have to remain competitive. We are also walking an incredibly tight line between wage growth and unemployment. It isn't the case that all businesses can just pay more wages without cutting headcount.

I think these discussions are vital. It shows the true feelings of people it’s important to be aware of that .

My point is that a lot of the children in that statistic are receiving less than a Child Benefit payment each week. And may have needs or a health condition that is not known or apparent to an outsider (eg another parent in the class)

So I don’t see how 2 children in each classroom is that shocking stats wise

Yippee! Yet another thread on disability benefits!

I'm not saying there isn't a huge cost. I'm not saying there aren't a few rogues that play the system. But it's not for us to judge those we know personally, deciding who is "deserving" or not. If we aren't with them 24/7, and we aren't their doctors, how do we know what their capabilities are?

Exactly. If you look at almost any area of government spending you could be shocked by the costs and make the claim there’s no way we can afford it in the current climate.

The government has chosen to highlight this particular area of spending because they believe it plays well with Reform voters. Which it does. Reform voters still ain’t about to vote Labour in any significant numbers though so it will all have been for nought.

It's punishing people that genuinely need them, not to mention clogging up Dr's appointments which are hard enough to get anyway

Here's some context:
Check out this thread at Thread Reader App. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1901308791552901620.html

The majority of people with disabilities don't claim any benefits.

Of course there are people who have no requirement to look for work. It's because they aren't capable of work.

There's a persistent belief that PIP is an out of work benefit so people receiving it aren't working. False - it has nothing to do with work, it's assessed on the amount of assistance people need in their daily lives.

People also overestimate the rates of disability benefits. They could easily look online and see how low PIP rates actually are.

Another currently circulating lie is that Motability cars are free. They are absolutely not free. The lease cost is paid from the benefit award and the claimant pays for any adaptations they need. People don't get the benefit AND a car.

People are surprised how many disabled people there are because they don't see us. They think it means being a wheelchair user or being completely blind. Disabled people don't carry a flag to identify themselves. It also isn't understood that disabled people aren't out there in front of you as much as the able bodied, because of the barriers that make it so hard to participate socially, travel and work. Some people are housebound or rarely get out.

Over 3 million people have long COVID and that number can only go up.

Employers frequently fail to provide the disability adjustments they should, despite these being legally required.

It's profoundly depressing to hear the constant drip of "why should I pay for someone else", accusations of fraud, suggestions that non-working disabled people should be working, misinformation about how much benefit they get, and general lack of caring of how it feels to face such a lack of understanding and empathy.

Well if the assessor's think so then yes. I don't really see why the needs of vulnerable children and adults are causing such discomfort.

We literally fund another family with several palaces, servants, multiple luxury holidays and huge swathes of land. We never ask them to be reassessed 😂

@FictionalCharacter the issue is that the number of people claiming has increased by a third in five years.

It’s the increased number of claimants that presents the challenge to the UK, providing this support is becoming more expensive.

TBH that the majority of people with disabilities don’t claim anything rather raises the question of how much bigger a challenge might this problem become.

It’s clear the majority think that DLA should be targeted in phase 2 of reforms 🤦

This. 💯

Are you deliberately being goady? If not stop posting absolute rubbish. An autism diagnosis involves a multidisciplinary assessment with about 6 clinicians at least. The criteria is very specific and requires numerical scores for each section.

since you seem to be hard of understanding I will post a link to the criteria for an autism dx

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/assessment-and-diagnosis/criteria-and-tools-used-in-an-autism-assessment

It’s not ‘causing discomfort’, it’s that the cost of providing them is growing so quickly, and is unsustainable as a result.

And - particularly given the growth in this kind of support for school age and young adults, primarily for mental health / associated conditions.