7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

Which would be really interesting because if the government had to for example give all those claiming medical treatment within a certain time rather than money I’m pretty sure within the first month they wouldnt be able to meet demand because that’s where the problem is - the NHS

But that's irrelevant. What if the partner has to go away? What if they get sick? What if they just don't fancy cooking one night? If they can't do it, they get the points.

My son gets higher rate care and high rate mobility DLA thanks to cancer causing him to be disabled.

18 months ago he was a perfectly healthy child with no care needs. If taking away his DLA would also take away this past year and give me my healthy child back, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

One minute I had a healthy child and the next minute I had to quit my job to care for him which meant also having to apply for UC.

It can happen to anyone at any time and I'm so grateful that DLA is there because having a disabled child is incredibly expensive. I'm terrified of any potential DLA cuts because it would be a struggle to provide what he needs.

So if you don’t think it’s fraud you are suggesting cutting benefits for genuine claimants.

I also think there is much to much reliance on therapy for the NHS when much of the 'therapy' involve tasks that parents should be able to provide themselves.

Helping children to adapt and cope with difficulties they face due to anxieties, feeling overwhelmed, coping with social interactions etc...should be a parental responsibility, not a healthcare one from medical professionals.

Yes if there was more funding into support/therapy etc available for the claimants rather than cash to spend as they choose this would be a step closer to actually making a positive impact and targeting the support effectively.

Also, the increase in anxiety/ADHD/learning difficulties - and especially private assessments. I honestly don't know anyone who has gone for an assessment and not come out with a condition and 25% extra time in exams (my kid included). Again that is not to say that many conditions are 'real'. Sadly, those who are in real need often don't get the support they need.

So, are you saying that your child doesn’t need extra time? I really doubt it. You wouldn’t put your child through an assessment for the sake of it.

Assessors won’t usually agree to assess a child unless they have a referral from school or a referral from the GP. I know this because I’ve just been through it.

Yes agree. It would start to re-focus thinking on what is actually needed to support different levels of disability and to improve those services which is absolutely key to the problem of welfare.

You shouldn’t have to have this kind of stress and hopefully there won’t be any changes to DLA (even though it’s clear from this thread how much dla resentment there is).

I don’t think people realise that the long term issues after cancer and cancer treatments can be permanent and debilitating. Also things like prematurity now being something more babies survive but are often left with disabilities. It’s a slippery slope with so much resentment and judgement and it’s heartbreaking for those going through it.

If you really think those conditions are 'virtually all the same thing', you might want to educate yourself a bit...

When you have a child who can't leave their room because of their OCD, it's beyond parental help. You are just showing that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Previously a significant proportion of care was provided by family and community. As we’ve transitioned to a more mobile and individualistic society the state has taken over. So if you wish the state to withdraw what do you suggest: stop people from moving away from their home towns to force them to provide care for family members; or enshrine individual responsibility to care for community in law so we each reduce our working week to help out (as women tend to do more child care, community care may fall to men). What would you go for?

I am too ill to work but I cannot claim benefits, if it was not for my lovely DH who pays for everything, I would be stuffed. I would have to try and claim, it is scary

Not all parents are qualified speech therapists, psychologists, physiotherapists or occupational therapists. Professional input is needed .

Who are these people playing the system and what exactly is your evidence of them? Not here say or you looking at a family and judging the situation without knowing their day to day life.

There are cheats in any system but I am not in agreement that there are loads of people in receipt of disability money they aren’t entitled to and I therefore don’t believe that the rise in claims is due to fraud.

As I said, the government thinks it’s to do with Covid related conditions. Which makes sense because it’s within the last 5 years.

Well that is bollocks! a) Boris did not introduce it b) people have a right to work with indefinite leave to remain - that's the whole point

I've had indefinite leave to remain since I was 7 (I'm 60 now) and I've worked in the NHS and paid taxes for over 40 years.

No this is incorrect. There is a very rigid criteria that has to be met for diagnosis. What you are thinking is that you see a huge range of presentations so it must be a woolly diagnosis. Can I suggest you think about the different presentations you see in say people who have any other disability? Autism isn’t a personality difference.

But all money is family money , and in sickness and in health is the basis of marriage so your dh isn’t being lovely - he’s fullfilling his chosen role as your husband

benefits are not a right - they are a safety net

decades ago people felt shame if they could not suport themselves - now people view their problem as entitling them to other peoples money

I’m so sorry for your situation. I hope there’s a way forward for your son.

The fact that so many people actively resent people like us for having ill or disabled children is mind-boggling to me. I believe these people must be missing some essential component of humanity. And they walk among us, looking like everyone else.

We are an unhealthy nation who do a poor job of looking after and supporting the vulnerable, including children. This costs us money. What most long-term sick, disabled and carers receive is hardly enough to maintain their basic dignity, let alone participate fully in society.

If we want this to change (and to save money), we need to stop being so infuriatingly short-termist and focus on changes that might cost initially but will save money in the long-run. I can think of a few off the top of my head:

• Improve standards in prenatal and maternity care. Payouts due to negligent care during childbirth are one of the NHS's biggest expenses and a tragedy for the families involved.
• Improve postnatal and health visitor care and early years services. Cookery classes, baby health classes (covering child dental care), child development. It was a travesty that sure start services were cut and it has cost us money.
• Dental care/tooth-brushing in schools, preschools and nurseries. NHS services should be readily available for all children and the government should "commission" dentists to visit schools, nurseries and preschools regularly. Subject to parental consent, mobile clinics could provide care onsite for children on a regular basis. Tooth-brushing after lunch should be standard - twice a day isn't enough imo, even if the parents are doing it and doing it right.
• Extended playtimes/free after school play clubs. Too many young children spend too much of their school day being sedentary and don't compensate for it out of school.

That attitude is the issue.

So while I agree this is a broader trend over decades…

… this doesn’t align with the number of claims increasing by a third in 5 years.

There will always be some that abuse the system but with a population of 68 million people, the numbers do not seem so huge. What would you suggest to the ones who are genuinely unable to work....sorry, nothing we can do?

ASD is a condition with one of the most rigorous diagnostic criteria. It is also specifically highlighted that a multidisciplinary team is needed to diagnose:

Autism spectrum disorder DSM-5 diagnostic criteria: Full text
A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive, see text):

1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted repetitive patterns of behavior. B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat food every day).
3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).
4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interests in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior. C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities or may be masked by learned strategies in later life). D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning. E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level. Note: Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnosis of autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. Individuals who have marked deficits in social communication, but whose symptoms do not otherwise meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder, should be evaluated for social (pragmatic) communication disorder. Specify if:

• With or without accompanying intellectual impairment
• With or without accompanying language impairment
• (Coding note: Use additional code to identify the associated medical or genetic condition.)
• Associated with another neurodevelopmental, mental, or behavioral disorder
• (Coding note: Use additional code[s] to identify the associated neurodevelopmental, mental, or behavioral disorder[s].)
• With catatonia
• Associated with a known medical or genetic condition or environmental factor