The worst thing about teachers' crap pay is how it impacts men

[noblegiraffe]

Is the message I'm getting from this Times article
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6d47f549-bc16-42f5-87eb-1a742ca8dbb0?shareToken=632bef4c3b70c58fa6f1720e42fc2d68

Teacher pay is crap, which means that men are leaving teaching, which means that boys aren't seeing enough positive male role models in schools.

Fine for women to limp along on shitty pay for years though?

Helpful.

That last sentence nails it. 'Women's work' is undervalued because it's done by women. It's a vicious cycle. Teachers are, like mothers, responsible for all the ills of society. Again, because they are women. Treating teachers with respect and paying them in line with the work they do is the only way to break the cycle. Starting from a 40 hour week and allowing a workable ratio of planning/prep/marking/additional responsibilities to teaching within that week is the way to do that. And making sure that their job has crystal clear boundaries.

You can't moan that there aren't enough men in a workforce while treating that workforce like crap, and not make the connection. The only way to sort this is the hard way: address the root causes.

The connection is even stronger - underpaid work becomes women's work, which is what the author of the article has decided is now actually a problem.

Ita pattern seen in many fields - the greater the proportion of women working in it, the lower average salaries become.

There is no point in teachers addressing AT on our own. What do you think we’re trying to do. The reply is usually well he earns more money than you/how many Bugattis do you have etc. We need all of society to do this. It would help if he was actually put on trial for instance.
Putting more men in teaching will achieve nothing while the leader of the US bragged about grabbing women by the pussy and it had no effect on his chances of being elected.

Yes, this just smacks of another 'schools need to sort societal ills' thing, like the teeth brushing and mental health and being overweight and using phones too much and everything else we are supposed to tackle in between teaching them a bit of maths.

That's exactly it.

THe real issue with teaching is not that it is an unattractive job for men but that it is an unattractive job for graduates full stop. Low pay, awful hours, attitude from both pupils and parents and often dire management from SLT who have no management training and frequently have little idea what they are actually doing. OK there are the holidays (and one should factor up the pay to take account of that). TBH the teaching profession relied for many years on the fact that there were few jobs that female graduates could do - once it was more open/normal to women to take up careers in law, accountancy, industry and commerce fewer went in to teaching.....

This thread isn't about my DH.

But , anyway :
Not especially
Yes in part
He probably isn't interested in the last part - it probably hasn't come on his radar but I'd imagine he doesn't think that's down to teachers of any stripe to solve that one and that the biological anatomy of the teacher is not the most important thing.

I'm concerned that @Coolcauli is only interested in a man's opinion on this, rather than your opinion. I may be wrong, but it rather feels as if it is underlining the initial point of this thread.

Some boys do have plenty of male teachers, single sex schools. Many (but not all) of these are in the private sector, and I'm sure people have opinions on how all those old Etonians and Wykehamites etc are working out for us.

I believe a male teacher ended up being asked to leave Eton. He’d been sharing misogynistic videos of himself online. We don’t need ‘men’ in schools. We need ALL men to call this nonsense out so ALL children have good examples everywhere. They spend more time out of school than in it.

At the moment the target audience will ignore male teachers as well. Why? Because the manosphere nonsense teaches them to disregard the opinions and examples of nurturing men. Why listen to someone who struggles to afford a car over a billionaire?

Oh for the Olden Days when men were paid more than their female counterparts because they were, er, men. And, "one day, they'll have a family to support whereas you will get married in a couple of years and leave, won't you dear?" Really. They got away with that for years.

Actually a really nice thing on TV just now about a man (not a teacher) who visits schools and encourages boys to own up to and think about emotions and masculinity. Projects like that are great and best out of the hands of teachers who need to teach and may not always be skilled (or willing) at other stuff. There needs to be more time and investment in specialist input, mentoring schemes, and so on. But that costs money and needs investment and proper planning.

It's weird that developed, g8ven that there have always been some women who never married, and it was particularly a problem in the years after WW1.

Well, not weird, because patriarchy, but still.

Indeed so. Papers were written, 'The Problem of Surplus Women' being one, can't attribute, forget the author.

Thank you so much for sharing this—what you've written is powerful, moving, and, sadly, all too reflective of a wider issue that doesn’t get nearly enough open conversation.
Your husband sounds like an incredible teacher and role model—not just for the children he teaches, but as a quiet counter to so many damaging stereotypes about masculinity, especially in environments where chaos, instability, or neglect can be the norm. The calm, consistent presence he brings into the classroom is a gift to those children, whether they—or others—fully realise it now or not. It's exactly this kind of grounded, empathetic male presence that many children, especially boys, desperately need to see: someone who demonstrates strength without aggression, care without condescension, and stability without control.
It’s heartbreaking but not surprising to hear how careful he feels he has to be, and how narrow the space often is for men in primary education, especially with the youngest children. The fact that he feels he must protect himself from suspicion simply by doing his job with compassion—while female teachers are largely spared the same scrutiny—is a quiet injustice that places an extra emotional burden on men like him who are there for all the right reasons.
And what you describe about the attitudes of some parents toward the male trainee teacher is so disappointing, but again, not uncommon. That discomfort, often disguised as humour or idle gossip, sends a clear message that male care in early education is seen as suspect—when in truth, it's incredibly needed. Those perceptions, left unchecked, drive away the very kind of men who could make a profound difference.
Yes, we absolutely need more male teachers. But even more than that, we need to change the cultural narrative around them—to trust them, support them, and recognise the value they bring without making them carry the weight of suspicion. Until then, teachers like your husband will continue to do quietly heroic work in classrooms where they’re too often misunderstood or underappreciated.
Please pass on thanks to him from someone who deeply respects what he does. He’s not just teaching children—he’s helping reshape futures.