The worst thing about teachers' crap pay is how it impacts men

[noblegiraffe]

Is the message I'm getting from this Times article
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6d47f549-bc16-42f5-87eb-1a742ca8dbb0?shareToken=632bef4c3b70c58fa6f1720e42fc2d68

Teacher pay is crap, which means that men are leaving teaching, which means that boys aren't seeing enough positive male role models in schools.

Fine for women to limp along on shitty pay for years though?

This is probably just in my school, which does have a lot of issues, but a lot of the male teachers, as well as being over-represented on SLT, are of the variety that ae way too matey with the boys and ae actually quite poor role models imo. The way they behave actually perpetuates the stereotypes we'd really all want to be challenging.

@Piggywaspushed is free to speak hyperbolically we are told.

So I suppose we just treat all posts by @Piggywaspushed with that in mind!

Voice of reason and sense. Thank you.
Nursing suffers from same issues. Traditionally a woman's job until she married. Tried to get men into nursing, but 'low pay' remainsxan issue, and they are obver-represented in management jobs. Largely becausexthey don't take career breaks to have babies.
The latter is true of most professions,mto be fair.

It’s not just in your school. Some of our male teachers are like that. In fact a whole department is. And a head of year (no one else went for the job).
We have plenty of fab male teachers too though.

Saying ' the men aren't in classrooms because they are all headteachers' in a tongue in cheek but not entirely inaccurate fashion while reflecting on a stat in the report that specifically mentions male class teachers is NOT the same as saying all headteachers are male, which is what I am told I said. It remains true that a man starting out in the primary teaching sector is more likely to ned up as a headteacher than a female.

Reading comprehension required.

Just for anyone wondering

Piggywaspushed · Yesterday 18:47

Josiezu · Yesterday 18:41
Because literally as the article said “Nearly a third of primary schools do not have a single male classroom teacher”.
Show quote history

Piggywaspushed · Yesterday 18:47

True, because they are all headteachers....

yes we know @Piggywaspushed it was hyperbole

Yes, I did. So, it is true that I did not say all headteachers are male. Thanks for the clarification.

I find it interesting that people seem prepared to throw scholarship money at a 'man problem' but money has never been thrown at the underrepresentation of minority ethnic teachers throughout schools at all levels in the UK. In fact, there was a whole thread yesterday alarmed that a Muslim man had reached the impressive role of chair of OFSTED. When schemes such as Stormzy's Oxbridge scheme are initiated people yell 'unfair'.

If we are to have scholarships for people starting out in teaching just by virtue of their biology then we need to have equivalent scholarships for the seriously underrepresented.

Christ on a bike. If you cannot see that is not the same as saying all headteachers are male , which is what was repeated back then back to school with you.

It would be worth changing the subject now, truly or picking on someone else . I am not the only person who made that type of comment by the way so track them down too and pick at their words. Or, better still, drop it.

loads already exist.

literally type in scholarships for ethnic minorities to join teaching…. And loads come up with special consideration for women and ethnic minorities

Yes we know @Piggywaspushed that this was a hyperbolic dry comment. As you have already stipulated

“Picking on someone else”

good grief

No they don't, unless you have a different search engine.

It seems as if there are of you only read the AI summary, but the only one that comes up that is actually a teaching bursary is the institute of physics one, and that is for any prospective physics teacher. It does particularly welcome minority ethnic applications, but there isn't an indication that these would be favoured.

Do you know what? If we recruited more men in to class teaching, reflecting a balance as seen in society , I'd be delighted. The passing comment I made was reflecting on the muddled use of stats in the article which at one point talks about all teachers and then class teachers.

If men entered and then stayed in the profession, in the classroom,it would go a long way to narrowing the gender pay gap, which is huge in the education sector.

Any of the men in your family teachers @Piggywaspushed ? If so, happy?

Which is a well known and explored phenomenon when looking at pay disparity.

An experienced teacher outside of London and the London fringe area, with no additional responsibilities, earns £49k. This is for a 45 week year inclusive of paid annual leave, which is quite a bit higher than the UK average salary. Teachers with additional responsibility allowances get a lot more. I don't think teachers are underpaid.

You are Brave!

Yes, as said above, DH is a teacher and it was he who flagged the article up to me.

They don’t earn anywhere near that much outside London unless they have an additional responsibility.

And in reference to the other poster. I don’t want to speak for @Piggywaspushed and we don’t always agree on things but I suspect we may on this. Putting more random men in schools won’t solve this. How can it when they see misogynists in power and getting away with crime? When sexual assault is effectively decriminalised? We cannot do this on our own. This is societal. Not solely about male role models.

And as for the ‘can’t be what you can’t see’ I get that it makes it easier to achieve but it can’t be true or there wouldn’t have been a first person to do it!

According to the article, men do. This will be specifically degree educated men who must believe they can command higher salaries , status and job satisfaction elsewhere as they are not entering the profession. This will be even more the case in STEM fields where there are more men anyway.

I actually believe in the 'can't be what you can't see' idea usually - but that would be true of things children find hard or unattainable. They all think it is easy to be a teacher. They don't want to be one. That's what needs unpicking.

That’s exactly why there’s a computer science teacher crisis. if you can command a higher wage elsewhere, unless you need the school holidays for childcare.

It's mums who pick the dads. If your children have a poor dad don't blame society.