Accent acquisition in young children

[argyllherewecome]

I'm a teacher but have been off work sick so I've had loads of time to think (for a change!). Anyway, this is something that has fascinated me for ages and I'm sure there are posters here who know about this.
My school is fairly diverse. Most children with ESL parents come into school either with no English or basic words that have a distinct mother tongue accent. They lose this within several years usually, and by then they have a local accent.

I've noticed though some children do not adopt a local accent.
Irish Travellers: despite being born and raised here they nearly exclusively all have a very thick Irish accent, and this doesn't change over time. There are a few other children that have parents or a mother at least from different parts of the country, and they keep a very strong regional accent from them, which doesn't change much over time. This is an exception rather than a rule though.

Any language experts that can explain how this happens? I'm the embarrassing sort of person that goes somewhere for a few days and I pick up accents!

Cece92 "He had a son with her wife and he's been speaking to him in his mother tongue and my daughter speaks to him in Scottish."

I'm so confused. What do you mean he had a son with her wife?

This is the ‘critical period’ that I spoke of in my earlier post, in action.

I think when English is your native language it is easier to keep your accent, but if learning English as a second language you would probably naturally mimic the accent and pronunciation of those you are learning English from ie your peers/colleagues. Plus children do it so naturally whereas adults think about how difficult it is to learn another language and so maybe more likely to hang on to their accent?

I’m Canadian and have retained my accent (I think) despite living in the UK for 40 years. I think that children often adopt the local accent to fit in but can flex their accent at home.
My sons, both born in London but raised in Dorset, have slightly different accents. My older son has a softer county accent and my younger son has a more RP accent now that he’s back living in London. It’s strange to me as I don’t think I worked to keep my accent unless it’s subconscious.

My sister and I sound very different, despite being brought up in the same place and going to the same schools. To the extent that when we were abroad once some Australians stopped us saying "we know you're British, but what nationality is your friend?" When I explained that she was my sister their next question was to ask what language she was speaking followed up with had we been brought up in different countries! She does have a very broad local (Scottish) accent, whereas I have more of our parents' English accent. We have discussed but don't know if it's because she was adopted (before her first birthday) or just because she was very contrary as a child!

She means thick as in strong, not thick as in stupid. A thick accent means a strong accent.

This. Children adopt a local accent to fit in. I was bullied for my accent when I first moved to England so invested quite a lot of time in practising how to speak like my peers. I lost my birth accent very quickly. When I'm with my family I speak how they do. There is no conscious switch.

I’ve worked in a school and it seems a lot of children lose their accents when they start primary school and mixing for larger parts of the day with others.
We had twins start with a Scottish accent as both parents moved from there in their 20’s, but the twins were born locally.
By the time they had started year 1 they had pretty much lost all trace of their accents and sounded like everyone else.
When I worked abroad I stayed with a family. The Mother was Scottish, the Father was Greek and the children spoke with what sounded like an American accent.
It is a fascinating subject, I don’t have an accent at all really, neither does one of my siblings, people probably wouldn’t be able to tell where we’re from but our youngest sibling has a stronger local accent.

I was bilingual before learning English as my parents are from different countries, so my accent has always been malleable. I do tend to unconsciously shift my linguistic register to adapt to whatever environment I’m in, with my accent getting thicker or thinner accordingly.

Some people are naturally more inclined to do this than others. It’s also the case that in some, and cultures, register shifting is heavily discouraged and treated as a betrayal of one’s roots, so a conscious effort is made not to do it.

Thick in the context of an accent just means strong.

Personally, I don't there is a critical point. Firstly, I think it has to do with how people learn aurally and whether they have an ear for accents. For example, some individuals can speak foreign languages very well, but still have a strong English accent, whereas others may demonstrate lower proficiency, e.g. a poor vocabulary, but their accents are extremely on point.

I also think how an individual identifies with their parents' culture plays a large part in accents. For example, in each non-white community in the UK, there will individuals who grow up adopting, absorbing and identifying more with mainstream British culture. They may have more white friends and adopt a lifestyle that is more polarised to the upbringing they had, or at least to their parents' culture. Not all British-born ethnic minorities or non-English people are like this, though. Some might have UK-born siblings or cousins who prefer to speak English less, who identify more with their parents' culture and I think it's these individuals who are less likely to adopt an English accent. They don't identify with it, so in your example the older brother identifies with being Polish much more so than English.

Away ye go. It absolutely is not only used in connection with Irish accents. You're talking utter nonsense.

Unless I misunderstood your post, I don't think it does show that.

P was 1 when he came here and speaks with a very strong Polish accent 16 years later. He was only 1 so wasn't speaking yet and as I say, his parents immersed themselves in local life so he would have been exposed to the local accent almost as much as his sister.

His sister is 10 so was born here and has the local accent.
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In my case, I was 6 and my sister was 5 when we moved from Wales to Coventry. My sister started speaking like a local very quickly. I didn't pick it up at all. People use to ask where I was from because I didn't sound like anything. When I went to Leeds in my 20s people said I didn't have any sort of accent.

However, I moved to Bristol in my 30s (10 years ago) and I've been told I've picked up the Bristol accent and I can sort of hear it myself. My mum who has kept her Welsh accent always comments about it but has never commented before.

So 4 places in my life and only after probably age 35 did I pick up an accent even though Id lived other places for longer. Go figure! 🤣

Maybe it's because I feel settled for the first time ever? So maybe I've subconsciously assimilated?

I am a Londoner who raised my DC in Yorkshire. They have a London accent.

A thick accent means a strong accent. Don't overreact.

I don’t doubt the interplay of identity that you suggest. I did list several facets of language acquisition, which included peer interaction and identity, in my initial post.

It’s absolutely not just a Critical Period issue. I was simply using a PPs lived example to highlight it in action.

My studies (BA English Language and PGCE with English literacy specialism) supported the existence of a critical period within the parameters of the Critical Period Hypothesis and this was the working hypothesis that underpinned my studies with various lecturers In varying modules (child language acquisition, second language acquisition and socio/ethnic linguistics etc). Although the latter was less concerned with it as it’s not a sociological hypothesis but rather a biological one.

The critical period hypothesis is more in line with another PPs assertions that we are born with all language possibilities open to us, but we begin to specialise (maybe even in the womb) according to input and need, meaning for instance English born speakers don’t ultimately develop the specific throat muscles to use vocal clicks that would be needed in some African languages.

it’s been 10 years since I graduated, so it’s possible that my understanding is no longer in line with current thinking.

I notice this a lot with people of Pakistani heritage who live in the north of England. Even if they've been in the UK their whole lives, they speak English with a Yorkshire or Lancashire accent with an Urdu lilt. If I hear someone on the radio or the phone I can always tell if they are British-Pakistani or Bangladeshi from a large and very established community that doesn't integrate with the wider British population much, even if their English is completely fluent with its own British regional accent.

I guess it's because English is probably not spoken much at home, so they grow up speaking English as a second language even if they were born here and they never really lose that twang. I can't say I've noticed it in other immigrant communities quite so much but maybe they have parents who don't live in areas where they only really mix with people of their own ethnicity or nationality. Certainly there are women of Pakistani and Bangladeshi heritage who have been in the UK for many years but still don't speak much English due to not mixing with anybody outside of their own communities. To be fair, it can be much the same with Brits living in the popular British enclaves in the Dordogne or the Costa Brava.

I know several children who have one British parent and one French parent and they've all been born and brought up in France. Their English has no trace of French accent that I can detect, and I am guessing their French has no trace of English either. But then they are fully integrated into a wider French community, not an immigrant one where English (or whichever other language) is more commonly used. And they would have been switching from French to English and back again in the home from as soon as they could speak. Unlike my previous example where both parents would probably only speak Urdu in the home, or recent British immigrants into France whose parents only speak English at home because their French isn't great. Those kids will get fluent in French at school but will probably always sound a bit English.

I'm going to guess that the French can tell by someone's accent if they are of Moroccan or Algerian heritage if they were born in France, if they've grown up in a large community of north African immigrants in France.

As someone who is born to an immigrant family, the more you mix with people who do not share your ethnic background and mother tongue, the less pronounced your 'home' accent will be. But if you live in a town that's 80% Pakistani/Moroccan and your school is 80% Pakistani/Moroccan then that probably isn't going to happen. If you are actually the minority in your school and your home town, rather than the majority, you will be more likely to speak the language of the country you were born and brought up in without any telltale signs of your parents' language or accent.

The same for the Irish Travellers. On the whole they rarely mix with people who are not from their own communities and don't tend to stay in school long, so their accent doesn't get blurred by the influence of the wider community.

I know a Canadian/English family - four children, two have Canadian accents, two do not, all have lived in England all their lives though do travel to Canada regularly. Fascinates me. What made two of them absorb their mother’s accent and two their father’s?

Back to the example of Irish travellers. I think accent is a huge part of their identity and their community. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but it would make sense that it is reinforced and practiced and emphasised. It's very important for who someone is and their heritage.

My mistake, I misread the age of the 1 year old and was referring to the child born here.

In that instance other factors, for whatever reason, identity, favouring of parents language choices over peers for longer etc likely interacted to supersede the CP.

Bearing in mind, it’s a CP for the potential acquisition not a mandate that the speaker must.

As I’ve just stated in a reply to a PP though, my understanding is a decade old and is maybe not in line with current thinking. I haven’t kept up with new theories.

It’s just a fascinating subject with biological/sociological/cultural and ethnic input all at play.

I find it fascinating as well. I have five DC. They all went to the same schools, the same sort of social circles but my older son,oldest daughter and younger son have very neutral English accents. My other two daughters have far more local accents. I have noticed though that since changing jobs and working in a far more public facing role my middle daughter is becoming more and more Welsh in rhythm if that makes sense?

My father was a Londoner but lived most of his life in Wales. When he travelled abroad people would often think he was Welsh.

My DD is bilingual, Dutch/English. When she speaks English she does so with the Yorkshire accent of my DH, when she speaks Dutch it's with the local accent (we live in NL).

She switches between the two languages very fluidly. I imagine it might be different if both parents had the same language but with different accents.

Family, school and friends probably all have an influence. I went to a fee paying school as did my children.and the family does not have strong accents eg I was brought up in the NE but due to how my parents spoke and the private school (we had a Lady titled person etc in the class) and similarly with my children (one had a Duke's relative in the class too) my children born down here new London do not have a London cockney accent, don't drop their Ts, don't say haitch. In other words the parents, class, schooling, friends etc probably have an impact (although we certainly don't speak like my aunt who by the time she died in Australia aged about 90 sounded like the late Queen - I think Tasmania was a bit like 1950s Britain).

People's voices and even the words we all use change with time too

I know an English family who moved to Ireland a few years ago for work when their three children were around 9 to 15. After a few years of being in the local school even the older ones have developed what to me sounds like really strong Irish accents. I'm sure to Irish ears they probably still sound quite English but all I hear when they speak is Irish. I've known these English kids most of their lives so, to me, it's so funny to hear them. 😁

My own children went to an international school for most of their secondary education. The official language of the school was English but the children were from all over the world, including many Arab countries. International school kids all end up with the same hybrid accent that sounds faintly American but from nowhere in particular. I was amazed at how quickly my DC picked up this accent themselves even though they had joined at a relatively late age. Even now, in their mid twenties and back in the UK for several years they still have this International school lilt.