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Accent acquisition in young children

253 replies

argyllherewecome · 10/03/2025 10:56

I'm a teacher but have been off work sick so I've had loads of time to think (for a change!). Anyway, this is something that has fascinated me for ages and I'm sure there are posters here who know about this.
My school is fairly diverse. Most children with ESL parents come into school either with no English or basic words that have a distinct mother tongue accent. They lose this within several years usually, and by then they have a local accent.

I've noticed though some children do not adopt a local accent.
Irish Travellers: despite being born and raised here they nearly exclusively all have a very thick Irish accent, and this doesn't change over time. There are a few other children that have parents or a mother at least from different parts of the country, and they keep a very strong regional accent from them, which doesn't change much over time. This is an exception rather than a rule though.

Any language experts that can explain how this happens? I'm the embarrassing sort of person that goes somewhere for a few days and I pick up accents!

OP posts:
Sweepandmop · 12/03/2025 09:13

CruCru · 12/03/2025 08:58

RP isn’t regional but a strong Sussex accent is quite distinct from a strong Essex accent.

I’m not disputing the fact that there are regional accents in the area, just saying that ‘thick’ isn’t usually a word used to describe them. You used strong yourself instead.

Unlike many posters, I see some difference in meaning between ‘thick’ and ‘strong’ when used to describe an accent.
And I know thick doesn’t mean stupid in this sense. I just think it is more negative as it more directly implies the accent is somewhat incomprehensible.

I wouldn’t be at all offended if my accent were described as strong, but wouldn’t like it if it were described as thick.
Basically, strong and thick don’t have exactly the same meaning in this context imho.

DuchessOfNarcissex · 12/03/2025 09:14

@howaboutchocolate , probably because Hertford is a commuter town.

TessTimoney · 12/03/2025 09:21

It's an interesting subject. My parents were Irish and moved to Scotland in their twenties but never lost their Irish accents. Both my sister and brother had "pronounced" Scottish accents while I was RP (teacher asked if I attended elocution lessons!) I have recently noticed several preschool children speaking with American accents - TV, computer games, etc. Why do some people adopt regional accents very quickly while others never lose theirs?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Kendodd · 12/03/2025 10:26

Sweepandmop · 12/03/2025 09:13

I’m not disputing the fact that there are regional accents in the area, just saying that ‘thick’ isn’t usually a word used to describe them. You used strong yourself instead.

Unlike many posters, I see some difference in meaning between ‘thick’ and ‘strong’ when used to describe an accent.
And I know thick doesn’t mean stupid in this sense. I just think it is more negative as it more directly implies the accent is somewhat incomprehensible.

I wouldn’t be at all offended if my accent were described as strong, but wouldn’t like it if it were described as thick.
Basically, strong and thick don’t have exactly the same meaning in this context imho.

I think you may be right that for some people 'thick' might be a level up from 'strong'.
Also, some people's accents are incomprehensible. I remember watching a Ken Loach film in the 90s, before you could just switch subtitles on, we had to turn it off because we didn't have a clue what characters were saying. This incomprehensiblity, might show how language splits and eventually become different languages???
It's interesting on this thread as well that there has been so much discussion about the meaning of a single word 'strong' and how it means different things to different people and that some even find it offensive. I don't envy people who have to write peace treaties given two sides can take very different meaning from a single word Smile

4kids2cats · 12/03/2025 10:26

argyllherewecome · 12/03/2025 08:49

I'd love to listen to this, can you remember what it was?

Yes it’s a BBC World Service podcast called “Unexpected Elements”. I listened on Spotify. I think it was the 7th Feb edition which was about the effects of isolation in various ways. I’ve only just discovered this podcast and it’s really great - so interesting and varied! Hope you enjoy it!

Blades2 · 12/03/2025 11:40

Irish travellers don’t mix with non travellers, the real hardcore ones don’t anyway. So they will never pick up an accent.

ExcessiveNumberOfNinjas · 12/03/2025 18:08

TessTimoney · 12/03/2025 09:21

It's an interesting subject. My parents were Irish and moved to Scotland in their twenties but never lost their Irish accents. Both my sister and brother had "pronounced" Scottish accents while I was RP (teacher asked if I attended elocution lessons!) I have recently noticed several preschool children speaking with American accents - TV, computer games, etc. Why do some people adopt regional accents very quickly while others never lose theirs?

How did you end up with an RP accent in school if your parents spoke with an Irish accent and your siblings a Scottish one? Presumably you went to the same schools they did?

My uncle spoke with a very RP accent but my mother doesn't and my grandparents didn't either. They were lower middle class, quite aspirational people and while not exactly 'common' or 'strong' their accent was fairly local/regional whereas his was proper RP. But he went to a private school on a scholarship and then a grammar school so mixed with children of the professional middle classes, which in those days meant you sounded quite posh. Plus he was a bit of a luvvie actor type so he spoke quite affectedly I think. It was the done thing in those days before regional accents and being working class was cool. Whereas my mum was sent to the local secondary modern with the 'rough' girls and was bullied for being a bit posh, even though she was far from posh.

Rescuedog12 · 12/03/2025 20:32

StillLifeWithEggs · 10/03/2025 11:08

‘Thick’ is an incredibly judgemental term. Perhaps your local accent sounds just as ‘thick’ to the Travellers? And, as a widely stigmatised ethnic group, I can’t imagine the children are mingling all that much with settled people out of school hours, so they’re less likely to be peer-influenced in terms of speech.

Thick means strong in terms of accent.Its not disparaging in the slightest.

Beenthroughit · 12/03/2025 21:24

"I don’t have an accent at all really, neither does one of my siblings, people probably wouldn’t be able to tell where we’re from but our youngest sibling has a stronger local accent"
0h yes I'm sure you have an accent, if you speak RP that is an accent as is 'generic' southern English.
You possibly mean that you don't have a local accent

Nellsbell · 12/03/2025 21:56

I have 2 children one more social and communicates more in school. School are fairly on it with pronunciation. My more social child is quite well spoken even though I wouldn’t say as parents we are.

jasminocereusbritannicus · 13/03/2025 07:17

Just adding my two penn’orth..

when our family moved from Hertfordshire to East Yorkshire 20+ years ago, my kids had very strong ‘local’ accents.
Within a short space of time, my daughter picked up the East Yorkshire accent , and now you would never know that she had ever been a ‘southerner’! My boys, by contrast, have never lost their southern accents! ( Particularly, and most strangely ,my youngest, who was only 2.5 years old when we moved).
I work in a school and I use a hybrid accent when there, but (mostly) my own when at home!

Muttisays · 13/03/2025 07:18

StillLifeWithEggs · 10/03/2025 11:08

‘Thick’ is an incredibly judgemental term. Perhaps your local accent sounds just as ‘thick’ to the Travellers? And, as a widely stigmatised ethnic group, I can’t imagine the children are mingling all that much with settled people out of school hours, so they’re less likely to be peer-influenced in terms of speech.

😂 have you genuinely never heard the term “thick accent” meaning a very strong accent?! Saying someone speaking in a thick Yorkshire/Bristol accent is a common collocation (in the UK at least) when describing the strength of local accent and is not a judgement on anyone’s intellectual ability. Sorry that made me laugh out loud. Not judgmental in the slightest.

jasminocereusbritannicus · 13/03/2025 07:21

Forgot to say… my boys were always perceived as ‘posh’ when at school, but in reality they had a normal ( common?!) Herts/North of London accent, like me!!

Sweepandmop · 13/03/2025 08:18

Muttisays · 13/03/2025 07:18

😂 have you genuinely never heard the term “thick accent” meaning a very strong accent?! Saying someone speaking in a thick Yorkshire/Bristol accent is a common collocation (in the UK at least) when describing the strength of local accent and is not a judgement on anyone’s intellectual ability. Sorry that made me laugh out loud. Not judgmental in the slightest.

’Thick’ could be taken as a judgement of someone’s accent, rather than their intellect, surely?

Muttisays · 13/03/2025 08:42

In common usage it’s an adjective description of a strong accent and not a judgement. Where that boundary lies is the perception of the reader but no, implies no judgment whatsoever to me. Some people will of course seek offence in anything.

If I said you were wearing a “thick jumper” would you take offence that I was judging something?

If I described a child as having “thick hair”, would you think I was judging the intellectual processing ability of the child?

If I described someone as having a “clever accent” that would sound like a judgement but would also make absolutely no sense in the same way that describing an accent as “unclever” would. Thick accent is an entirely normal adjective to use in describing a strong, heavy (ooh careful - is child overweight as well?) or pronounced ACCENT.

Gremlinsateit · 13/03/2025 09:08

The problem isn’t that thick=stupid in this usage! The problem is that to say someone has a thick accent is a negative judgement of an accent you consider to be that of an outsider. You would never talk about a thick RP accent, a thick Oxbridge accent, etc.

Sweepandmop · 13/03/2025 09:12

If I said you were wearing a “thick jumper” would you take offence that I was judging something?

If I described a child as having “thick hair”, would you think I was judging the intellectual processing ability of the child?

No and no. Obviously! Completely different contexts.

But if you told me I’d a thick accent I’d be upset, as it implies you have difficulty understanding me. That you consider my accent somewhat unintelligible, and that’s not good.
’Strong’ is less critical in my opinion.

I don’t think thick means stupid in the context of accents, to be clear. It’s still quite judgmental, to me.
Maybe partly because only some accents are ever referred to as thick. Nobody is ever said to have a thick RP accent, even though the accent is a pronounced one.

Sweepandmop · 13/03/2025 09:13

Sorry, cross posted with you @Gremlinsateit, but agree entirely.

Rubyupbeat · 13/03/2025 09:29

My friend is Polish, 60, born here. Brought up in a tight Polish community. She is very well spoken , but if she talks in English to other older Polish folk, her accent becomes very strong.

CruCru · 13/03/2025 10:05

I think we in the UK are often a bit shy about talking about accents because we don’t want to come across as snobby or rude.

I suspect that the people who object to the term “thick” when used about accents are more middle class than I am. They aren’t saying “For God’s sake, it’s water, not wa’er” to their children.

A few years ago, I was in a shop (London) and the young guy behind the till said it was “Tar paans”. So I gave him two pounds when he’d actually wanted ten pounds. He had a thick London accent.

ExcessiveNumberOfNinjas · 13/03/2025 10:15

Beenthroughit · 12/03/2025 21:24

"I don’t have an accent at all really, neither does one of my siblings, people probably wouldn’t be able to tell where we’re from but our youngest sibling has a stronger local accent"
0h yes I'm sure you have an accent, if you speak RP that is an accent as is 'generic' southern English.
You possibly mean that you don't have a local accent

RP is not generic southern English I can assure you. There is no such thing as generic southern English any more than there is generic northern English. There are broad speech similarities that mark someone out as from the north west, or the north east, the south west, the south east, or the midlands. That's all.

By 'southern' England I presume you are dividing England up into three broad bands of south, midlands and north. So everything south of the midlands would encompass all the home counties as well as Beds, Oxfordshire Hampshire, E and W Sussex and Suffolk as well as all of the west country south of the midlands including Cornwall, Bristol and Gloucestershire? That's a huge sweep. The idea that they all speak in a way that is some sort of generic accent that is loosely RP is just so inaccurate I don't even know where to start.

People in Newcastle don't sound anything like people in Manchester but by your logic they are both 'northern' so they must speak the same. Confused There are subtle differences between the fairly bog standard accents of Essex, Kent and Surrey that I can discern because I am very familiar with all those areas and people from them, but those differences may not be picked up by someone from Newcastle for example. To them they'd just hear 'southern' or 'London.' If they think they hear RP then they don't know what RP is.

There will be people who claim they speak with RP, by which they usually mean they ennunciate clearly, probably have softer, more modulated vowel sounds compared to others who speak with a much stronger regional accent than them, don't drop their Hs or their Ts etc, use standard grammatical sentence construction etc. But that is not the same thing as speaking RP. They could still very much be identified as 'northern' or from or the west midlands or even specific parts of Scotland, even if they are perceived as quite well spoken or 'posh'. RP is not the same as simply speaking well but with a regional accent, however refined it is. If it's identifiable as regional at all then it's not RP.

RP is a very specific and prescribed way of speaking English. Anyone who speaks it in its pure form could be from anywhere in the UK and you would not know where. There would be no giveaways to a specific region in their speech, or only barely perceptible ones that a trained linguist would be able to pick up on, but not your average person. That's the whole point of it. It's a way of standard pronunciation that makes English clearly understood by anybody in the world, without the need to further interpret or understand an added layer of regional variance or dialect. I've heard Aberdonians and Scousers interviewed on TV where their regional accent was so strong I felt I needed subtitles even though I am a native English speaker and so were they. If they could understand me perfectly in a reverse situation, it's not because I am from the south, it's because I speak quite 'well' so while I don't speak RP, my local (greater London) accent is a fairly soft one. But put someone with a very broad working class London/Cockney accent in front a a foreigner who thinks they understand English well and it could be a very different story.

RP is supposed to remove all that confusion and be the default for spoken English. The 'better' you speak, the closer it will be to RP but that doesn't mean it is RP. But 'better' in this case simply means more easily understood by the greatest number of people.

Traditionally most people who have grown up learning to speak with RP have not had much interaction with the locals of their area, being from the sorts of families where everyone was packed off to boarding school then university, in the days when uptake was more like 7% and less like 50%. By the time they were fully formed adults their accent would be fixed and not 'adulterated' by the influence of regional speech. And the working class and LMC kids who made it to university had probably had their regional accents knocked out of them (or at least softened) by grammar schools and scholarships to private school.

These days RP is seen as unimportant, as class barriers break down and regional accents are embraced and celebrated. RP is certainly no longer the key to the door of certain careers. Although undoubtedly, being able to speak 'well' will still help in certain spheres. But 'well' does not mean without any trace of regional accent.

Except TV and radio, where these days the very opposite is true and RP is more likely to hold you back and mark you out as someone who has succeeded not necessarily through meritocracy, but privilege, nepotism or old school networking. Whether that is true or not is beside the point, it's the perception that matters.

Sweepandmop · 13/03/2025 10:20

I suspect that the people who object to the term “thick” when used about accents are more middle class than I am. They aren’t saying “For God’s sake, it’s water, not wa’er” to their children.

@CruCru
No, I have the sort of accent that might be referred to as thick by some people. So I know how I perceive the term. I just asked a few others here with me how they’d feel if they were told they’d a thick accent. All would find it judgmental, without exception.

So, for all those on this thread who think ‘thick’ is an inoffensive synonym for strong or pronounced when speaking about accents - well, for lots of people with ‘thick’ accents it’s not seen that way. It’s seen as a slight.

Something to keep in mind maybe.

Sweepandmop · 13/03/2025 10:51

That's the whole point of it. It's a way of standard pronunciation that makes English clearly understood by anybody in the world, without the need to further interpret or understand an added layer of regional variance or dialect.

@ExcessiveNumberOfNinjas
I don’t think the point of RP is, or was, clear communication tbh. Traditionally it was about status.

I think the reason so many easily understand it is because it was the standard accent, BBC English, for so long. Not because it is intrinsically clearer?

The choice of RP as a standard for learning has been criticised as ‘difficult’ and ‘problematic’ by some linguists.
It is quite a pronounced accent and does strange things with r’s for a start 😉

InterIgnis · 13/03/2025 12:46

TaliaTalia · 11/03/2025 20:57

This is a really interesting thread and something I’ve wondered about.
I am Israeli, English is my third language, English is also my children’s third language. The oldest children were born in Israel, the youngest two were born here (UK). We are orthodox but well integrated into the non Jewish community. They ALL speak English with an American twang that’s been commented on in their diagnostic reports (ASD). I don’t get it. Most of the English language media they watch is British English, they learned to speak English by immersing in the (non American) community, I certainly don’t have an American accent and neither does their dad, but even the two year old has started with it recently. Where on earth has it come from?!

General American has influenced a lot of people internationally, so even if they’re not directly exposed to it through media that doesn’t mean they won’t have picked it up from others using it. This can then be reinforced through the influence your children have on each other.

That can also just be how the different linguistic influences sound when ‘blended’, as it were. English is my third language, and I’ve often been asked if I’m South African or Israeli when speaking it (no to both). I’ve also had American, and to a lesser extent Australian (again no to both).

TaliaTalia · 13/03/2025 12:54

InterIgnis · 13/03/2025 12:46

General American has influenced a lot of people internationally, so even if they’re not directly exposed to it through media that doesn’t mean they won’t have picked it up from others using it. This can then be reinforced through the influence your children have on each other.

That can also just be how the different linguistic influences sound when ‘blended’, as it were. English is my third language, and I’ve often been asked if I’m South African or Israeli when speaking it (no to both). I’ve also had American, and to a lesser extent Australian (again no to both).

That’s so funny you’ve said that because I’m often asked if I’m South African and in my mind an Israeli accent and a South African accent are nothing alike but clearly there must be a similarity that some others can hear.

I suppose American English is commonly heard enough that they could have picked it up that way. It just really surprises me the strength of it in all of them, especially the two who were born and grew up here.