‘Interesting’ article on overdiagnosing in Times.

[Soontobe60]

Just putting this here for discussion.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f82545c-57f5-4db2-8a47-9a8cc2304243?shareToken=c0f809004b0c59cf1b96f6b6eb6129c3

I wonder if this happens a lot tbh. Have a relative currently on DLA (autism) having a lovely time horse riding etc, no thoughts on anything education wise for the future, not been in school for years. I asked the parent what the plan was for them and they said move to PIP when they reach that age. Looking at the PIP criteria I can't comprehend how it will be approved as they are pretty much a normal functioning person, they don't require help as such. I would say the main issue is they are unsocial but they do still manage these horse riding events etc.
I just feel like cases like this it seems easier to push them on to PIP rather than to encourage them to achieve something with their life. Sad really.

I get why she says what she says but to me the article is a bit scattergun. It might have been better if she had concentrated either on physical illnesses or on neurodiversity.

I can understand that, I’ve just seen a lot of pushback to any kind of research or studies that seek to shed light on what autism actually is or what causes it. There was a recent study, still in the early stages, that seemed to show a certain medication or supplement drastically reduced symptoms in some autistic individuals (eg nonverbal children beginning to speak etc) Anything like this is met with anger or resistance by a section of the ASD community and a pushback against it being taken any further.

People no longer have characteristics and personality traits. They just have symptoms

Yes overdiagnosis of ND and early diagnosis/over treatment of cancer are very different issues.

It is well recognised that screening programmes detect cancers that may have never spread or reduced the patient's life expectancy, hence a patient may essentially undergo 'unecessary' treatment. Some countries are considering withdrawing screening because of this.

I agree. We can’t go on like this. Im not exaggerating when I say every other child on here has ASD or ADHD - I’m actually surprised to read a thread and not see it mentioned. While of course not everyone with a diagnosis claims DLA/PIP, ND and MH are the drivers of the recent massive spike in claims which means we now have the equivalent of the population of Scotland on disability benefits. Almost 2 children in every classroom are getting DLA. If these kids are mostly relying on getting PIP as an adult, we’re in big trouble.

That's quite sad just automatically pushing for benefits rather than wanting their child to succeed in life.

Is there any evidence that diagnosis of 'mild' neurodivergence improves long term outcomes for children and adults? I really hope there is some and we're not just conducting a massive social experiment.

The book is about over diagnosis generally. I suspect the article has cherry picked the most click baity bits.

With every other condition, either there is a pathological test or you can diagnose based on the fact the patients overwhelmingly have the same symptoms.

For example, cancer. People can have the same cancer but differing symptoms. But they know they have the same cancer via diagnostic testing.

Migraines - there’s no test for these, but every sufferer presents similarly with head/neck/eye pain, vomiting etc

With autism not only is there no diagnostic test, but the people diagnosed don’t even have the same symptoms a lot of the time. One person can be non verbal and low functioning, the next can be very eloquent and high functioning. Not to mention the various profiles - anxious, demand avoidant, social difficulties, hyperactive etc

How do we know they all have the same thing? It’s far too nebulous for me to even grasp it.

In that case, two books

Exactly that, I do feel that she has been failed by her parents (broken home). Seems it was almost easier to get her diagnosed with something than for them to admit that they are at fault, too busy playing tit for tat over the relationship breakdown in my eyes than to focus on your child.

There’s little long term studies as the explosion in diagnoses is relatively recent, a bit like with transgender. I wonder what will happen in years to come.

This sudden craze to be (self) diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is incredible and part of the general craze to find a collection of labels too define yourself by. Mostly highly educated adults IME. Who seem to cite perfectly normal human experiences as their reasons for having ADHD. This is served up with a side order of "it's ok for you", as if those of us without such a label have no struggles in life. Young people think this is what ADHD is, this the cycle is perpetuated and made worse for those suffering at the severe end, who are mostly not well educated and don't dominate the narrative ...Because they have severe ADHD.

Many people are ending up on lifelong medication, such as antidepressants or stimulants for ADHD, that can have serious side-effects and be hugely addictive

The fact she thinks ADHD meds are addictive when given to someone who has ADHD shows she doesn’t understand ADHD

I wish they were addictive so I could remember to take the things instead of struggling all day at work because I had left my meds in my locker and am not allowed back till the end of the day.

The fact that she acknowledges there were children in her class who did have an SEN but the inference because she doesn’t say what happened after school to them is that they were fine not having a diagnosis. But doesn’t see how their lives have turned out and what struggles they face throughout their lives

The article is based on her opinion rather than facts. Comparing ADHD meds to the opioid crisis just shows how little she understands

As someone who went through childhood and nearly all of my adulthood without a diagnosis and who is on meds for ADHD. (The highest strength and the most amount you can have) and still has to have top ups of Lions Mane, LCarnitane and Saffron I can tell you, the meds only go so far when you have been through menopause and scored 9/9 in all 4 areas in an ADHD assessment

I can also tell you despite struggling through school without a diagnosis I wasn’t fine. My ADHD/dyslexia etc and didn’t just disappear in adulthood.
My ADHD especially infected every area of my life and knowing that somethings I couldn’t do (like hold down a job) meant my life was one of struggle and compromise and being put 2nd in everything

It does sound like she is trying to make a name for herself as the doctor who blew the lid on over diagnosis but fails to understand what happens when people don’t get the assessment they need.

We were looking at an autism specialist school and were told in writing 'come back after you have had DS assessed.'

Ironically, he is now diagnosed (even privately this was ADOS and multi disciplinary so 4 professionals in different paediatric fields had to see him and view video evidence and all agree he met the threshold for ASD). In the end he didn't qualify for the school as he was working too far behind peer expected.

In our experience, schools he has been to have gaslighted us, no question. No, we don't think he has dyslexia...18 months of me hassling and eventually he was seen in school by LA EP in Y4. Dyslexia plus multiple and complex SEND.

It has even carried on beyond diagnosis, dyspraxia and 20 page OT report but school see 'no difficulties' in motor skills...because it is inconvenient for them to provide 1:1 despite an EHCP and funding.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. My whole family has mild neurodivergence, amongst them there is diagnosed ADD, ADHD and autism, some in combination with a high iq. My own DD has some issues too. I suspect my father has autism.

Once they have found their niche and are out of school, everyone has turned out well and holds down regular jobs. No one is on benefits. Almost all of them have quite technical jobs.

I have a cousin with a more severe case of autism (has never been to a regular school), he is a successful programmer.

Autism is a tricky one and personally I find the spectrum unhelpful. We are comparing people with minor difficulties and those with severe disabilities who will require life long care. I can't really see how putting them under the same umbrella is helpful. I struggle to understand how that is the same thing.

This

Regarding cancer diagnosis a lot of elderly people don't realise how brutal the treatments will be and also they may go through it all only to die of that or something else. My 80 years old MIL goes to GP about everything and frequently gets referred to imaging or consultants but tells DH she doesn't want any treatment anyway. More education needed for those getting too frail to be treated is surely best.

From our point of view (DS diagnosed at age 14, last year) it was vigorous testing by a multidisciplinary team e.g. SALT, OT, clinical psychologist and another psychologist. We had thought his social communication differences were due to DCD/dyspraxia until both (independent)OT and SALT who had assessed him in detail advised further assessment.

I have exactly the same experience with my father too. No health issues but worry and frequent tests.

But it isn’t a concrete test, like a blood test or an X ray. They diagnose based on behaviour, but equally could diagnose 2 people presenting completely differently with the same thing.

If people want to access screening, then of course that is fine. But it is pushed on us as if it's mandatory, when it absolutely isn't.
And some women who are getting a "positive" still may not require treatment, and yet the bandwagon seems to. ust roll on.
People need choice and information.

Definitely this!