‘Interesting’ article on overdiagnosing in Times.

[Soontobe60]

Just putting this here for discussion.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/9f82545c-57f5-4db2-8a47-9a8cc2304243?shareToken=c0f809004b0c59cf1b96f6b6eb6129c3

@selffellatingouroborosofhate if your eyesight is not so good, bright light does help you read even wearing glasses. I need bright light.

If only it was so easy to magic money up for private school. My son's school have advised me not to look at other state schools because they likely won't have the staff either and even if they did by some miracle, they likely won't be completely accessible as my son's school happens to be which is also important because he's in a wheelchair.

Online school is what we're currently stuck with. It's awful, my son hates it and he isn't learning a thing.

He just wants to be at school with his friends and I don't think that's too much to ask so I'll continue working with the school and hope that eventually, especially when his EHCP is finally sorted, he can access the education he deserves.

@LadyRoughDiamond You wouldn't hear from patients if they had a negative diagnosis at a private clinic. They would have no reason to follow up their concerns with you, they would just leave it at that. I'm pretty surprised that you fail to see how selective your sample group is. It's so disappointing to hear doctors with this attitude.

I have sphere, cylinder, and two axes of prism in each eye. My glasses cost more than a month's mortgage payment. If the lights are too bright, they not only hurt but cause me problems with lens glare. You no more speak for all glasses wearers than I do.

What part of my comment are you objecting to this time?

I did not claim to speak for all glasses wearers. Obviously some people like yourself have more specialist eyesight needs. I specifically talked about eyesight not being so good i.e. the common garden eyesight issues caused simply by lens shape.

But this is the issue that has arisen, there are so many pupils that have EHCPs now that it's impossible to fulfill them all.

What if your son's school just cannot find a member of staff for his needs? Or they have to split their support staff and then other parents who have a certain level of support complain because some has been taken from them to accommodate an additional EHCP?

I am not saying your son should not have an education and it sounds like his school want to provide it for him but how would you react if they are unable because they are swamped with other EHCPs?

This is the growing reality because so many students are getting a diagnosis and parental demand for SEN provision.

So others should suffer so your needs are met?

(I don’t actually mean that, I believe there are ways to meet all needs, it just needs a different and more innovative approach than anyone will willingly try, but do you not see the irony in your posts about your eyesight?)

this is quite interesting.

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/jan/adults-diagnosed-adhd-may-have-reduced-life-expectancies

I'll fight like hell because the alternative is he doesn't get the education he deserves and I'll do what I have to do for him to get that.

I have no other choice. Not unless the LA fancies paying for him to go to the local private school which is doubtful.

I am not saying anyone should suffer. But needs do conflict. So whose do we choose?
A friend who is deaf can not hear anyone in a room that does not have bright lights. The big light in the living room is always on when she visits.

Yes its about risk taking behaviour, including with lifestyles.

We choose the needs of the many. We have to, we have no choice. Right now half of my oldest’s class at school are significantly behind because they have so little staff attention - TAs are no longer TAs, they’re one to ones for SEN children.

Every child has the right to an education, but not the best education money can buy which is tailored to their exact needs. No child has that, NT or not. At work I see parents fighting for expensive placements, insisting it’s the only place that can meet their child’s needs. The child attends for a few weeks then drops out again because the parents say the school wasn’t meeting their needs. Then the fight for the next placement begins. I feel like the expectations are too high.

And this is what every parent thinks, I would think the same, but if the increasing number of EHCPs can't be met what does everyone do?

Which is why I think people are starting to question the criteria for obtaining an EHCP. If a school can't recruit a trained support to allow pupils to access their education what can you do? Magic people out of thin air?

Some TA are leaving because they are being expected to cover 2/3/4 children and no one is getting what they need. And it's a spiral downwards.

Again, I’m not asking for a bespoke system for children who generally can cope in mainstream.

Yes schools are there to teach, but many are failing this simple premise. State schools are for the many not the few - I agree, but the many part of it shrinks every year, I wonder if there’ll be a cut off point when the government finally realises they have to do something instead of hiding behind useless campaigns, showing clearly what a mockery the whole fucking thing is.

I’m asking for simple low cost changes that might just improve the school experience for everyone, bearing in mind we live in a world where disabilities exist and we are hopefully beyond a time where we should just not educate them or put them all in institutions.

I’ve spoken to many people about this.

1. Teachers and HTs - lovely idea but we do things the way we do them, ie we know best.
2. Ex teachers - all agree, in fact many of my thoughts have come from lengthy discussions about the failures within schools that have led to so many leaving in the first place.
3. Autism outreach workers, 3 of them to be exact (one retired) all who are part of an extensive network of autism workers - they fully agree that their jobs are more difficult than ever before because they are stretched thin and because many teachers (not just a few) are resistant to doing anything differently that could have a positive effect on their classrooms, and obstructive when it comes to being asked to support any children at all. One of the AO workers retired a few years ago and is now a friend. She has horror stories about how bad things have got in schools, how some simple things would really help, but how most teachers and HT just say no.

Given those, and my personal experience, and the experiences I’ve heard from countless other parents, I’ve stopped believing that teachers and HTs want school to be productive and positive places. I think there are some outstanding teachers and HT who do their very best to make positive changes, but ultimately they are swimming against a sea of people who are stuck in a hero/victim mentality and fight against any change whatsoever.

I’m not going to answer the last part as that has been done to death, you are welcome to go back and read the many posts about that exact thing.

@LadyRoughDiamond DS2 had been under SALT and OT (NHS) from the age of 2. He was assessed in the classroom by an NHS specialist nurse when 7 who recommended ADHD medication and assessment for ASD. We didn't want him medicated so young before ASD assessment. These things take time. He was diagnosed ASD by GOSH when he was 10.

But as no formal diagnosis of ADHD had been made he couldn't get meds and as the waiting list was so long we got a private diagnosis of ADHD as they were able to take account of previous investigation and so he could start meds before GSCE demands under right to choose and shared care that meant GP could dispense meds.

Of course there will be a 100% diagnosis rate for DC in my son's circumstance. They should have been given an official diagnosis earlier but weren't because of failure. There was no need for my son to wait years for CAMHS repeat assessment of a condition that had already been assessed and found to meet diagnostic criteria 7 years ago just because he was not medicated.

Maybe there is a 100% positive diagnosis in private clinics due to obvious failure of NHS services?

Well, it certainly hasn't been an easy process so far to obtain an EHCP. Lots of meetings, lots of paperwork, lots of evidence. He'll need 2:1 which obviously makes things even more difficult too.

I have a good relationship with my son's school and I'm incredibly understanding but I don't have a choice, I have to push them. They know that and I know that they are stretched.

The whole point of the Equality Act was because we collectively recognised that failing to meet the needs of disabled children, who make up "the few", was incompatible with civil and human rights.

A modest proposal: given that schools have more than one class per year group, place all the kids who need maximum lighting in one class and all the kids who need the lights dimmed a little in another. The rest of the kids will be fine in either class.

That is not a modest proposal at all.
Schools do the best they can for kids. But sometimes kids need to make the adjustments like wearing sunglasses or wearing noise cancelling headphones.

I’ve stopped believing that teachers and HTs want school to be productive and positive places.

Your belief is supported by the increasing number of schools who take a "zero tolerance" approach to everything and will hide behind "we can't make exceptions to the rules" to deny reasonable adjustments, such as allowing a child with clothing-related sensory issues to wear a white polo shirt instead of a formal shirt. This unreasonableness also manifests as racism, with hair policies that deny the practical aspects of being Black and having naturally afro-textured hair, and as religious discrimination where students aren't allowed to cover their legs or heads.

@SecretMoomin DS2's GOSH report singled out his primary school because all the evidence they had submitted for a clearly autistic child tried to claim all was fine and he was NT. They were told to educate themselves. They didn't. Just convinced themselves the parents were the problem. Don't kid yourself it doesn't happen.

But sometimes kids need to make the adjustments like wearing sunglasses or wearing noise cancelling headphones.

Wildflowers99 indicated that she considered sunglasses in classrooms to be unreasonable.

That is not a modest proposal at all.

Kids are moved between classes routinely as part of "streaming". This isn't hard to implement at all.

I must admit, I find it a little amusing that two of the most strongly-held opinions on Mumsnet are:

• Children are not one-size-fits-all and we need to accommodate neurodivergence in all its weird and wonderful ways, even when those needs conflict with the needs of other children
• Private schools are the devil

And what has happened around here, is there is one school that happily takes on children requiring additional support because they like the extra cash, this doesn't filter down to better provision, and many parents (ourselves included) apply, and in our case were lucky to get, places in schools with Heads who are under academies so can more easily exclude pupils. Our children had spent long enough, 7 years, with violence and disruption in their educational setting, it wasn't going to change for the 5 years that they have for secondary, so we moved them.

The school that is within the travel distance that will take pupils, and their percentage of educational support is above average. And it's still chaos. It is a race to the bottom.

And this is what is going to happen more and more across the country, if it isn't already. The competition for schools that can offer a less disrupted education and deal with, frankly outrageous in some cases, behaviour are going to be oversubscribed. But we weren't prepared to leave our children's one stab at secondary and GCSEs in the hands of an ineffective Head. And it works really well, particularly with the youngster's school, the oldest is out of there in a handful of weeks so utter irrelevant to us now, but the other school has great provision for children who can manage with main stream, with no turning down of lights or uniform relaxation, and a smaller number of SEND children benefitting from a decent SEN department.

A LA has to provide a school place, not necessarily a school place where you want to go. And children do get passed from pillar to post until they are in a LA school where it is much harder to exclude them. This all legally falls under the Equality Act, they are provided a school place.

Children are not one-size-fits-all and we need to accommodate neurodivergence in all its weird and wonderful ways, even when those needs conflict with the needs of other children

That's literally the premise of both comprehensive schools and mainstreaming SEND: that children aren't one-size-fits-all and yet somehow at the same time all these differing needs can be met in one classroom. Anybody with two braincells to rub together can see that differing needs will conflict. A side effect of mainstreaming SEND kids is that vulnerable SEND kids are in the same schools as the kind of vicious bullies that non-SEND kids struggle to evade and resist, without the staffing levels needed to assure their safety.

We need more special schools provision.