Are there any courses, you would actively discourage your dc doing at uni ?

[JennyTals]

Is anything a no go for you, or would you support any course

Medicine

Mine toyed with it before Covid and he has now well exceeded the academic requirements but to me it seems an awful lot of gruelling slog for a very long time in return for a massive impact on your personal life and not that much reward compared to other roles. I was glad he went off it.

All of them except something with a specific career at the end - medicine, law etc.

If they don't have a specific degree-required career in mind it's better to go in as a junior or on the apprenticeship scheme for a career path they like the look of where they pay them to learn (anything from programming to marketing to trade skills). That way they build up their career fast and have a house, good car, disposable income and no debt by 25. Plus if they find out they actually hate it, like my cousin did with video game design, they can just switch jobs instead of having to pay for another 2 years or only finding out after that while they loved the degree they hate the actual job in real life.

(Unless it's just to check boxes to say they have a degree and they plan to marry rich or have kids early and do nothing with their degree like some people I went to uni with, in which case do whatever).

It depends what discipline you go into. My dad and sibling are both doctors. One (surgeon) works crazy hours but the other (psychiatrist) has quite civilised working hours. They both love their jobs. But it's a bit of a calling I think. If you go into it for money, status or glamour (ha!) as some kids do, they get a rude awakening

I could never do medicine myself

Maybe your friends weren’t that bright or motivated? I did Eng Lit and I’m a novelist who teaches creative writing in a well-regarded English and Creative Writing department. Of my graduating cohort, the ones I can think of or that I’ve kept in touch with are academics, journalists, run arts organisations, are museum curators, subject librarians at university libraries, make tv documentaries, civil servants, teachers, one is a fairly well-known broadcaster, a couple of diplomats, plus there’s a quite well-known playwright.

There are people who’ve headed off in completely different directions, obviously, but that’s true of any degree. I know someone who did archaeology who is now a senior policeman, someone who did accountancy who now has an award-winning restaurant, another who did accountancy who is now a psychotherapist, someone who did science who’s now an actress etc etc.

I wouldn't discourage as such but I'd suggest a degree that actually leads to a career, ie medicine, nursing, engineering etc.

@AmeliaTangfastic a plate glass university is not the same as a college that's turned into a uni / offers degrees. Many of them are now Russel Group, which as we know is the only acceptable type of uni on MN .

quite seriously, looking at long terms careers, I don’t think you can go wrong with being an arms dealer. Not sure of the career path for that though - military?

While not exactly an arms dealer, my husband was in something related and even that industry has its ups and downs.

Honestly? Depends how smart the young adult is (academic and focus/ life skills)

if someone has a good English degree from a top university and is working in a bookshops that’s entirely on them.

Corporate graduate schemes are open to pretty much all subjects providing they demonstrate academic ability and hard work. I work with plenty of big 4 grads who have degrees in English bio chemistry history etc… they rely on certain universities to select the best then rely on their own recruitment criteria to get to the highly trainable ones.

the stats play out how successful for both the students life and generational wealth any degree is (at population level) particularly for those from low income backgrounds. As others have said it’s about maturity, diversity, forming relationships and being exposed to people and information- effectively making better jobs accessible.

for you making better jobs accessible might mean being a doctor or lawyers but for many, many students that might mean a job at a local authority or similar institution with an excellent pension and steady wage to qualify for a mortgage. And these situation particularly are were post 92 unis have excellent track records.

this conversation is often dominated by Micky mouse degrees and people who can’t understand how important education is for getting people out of poverty, but that’s your own ignorance speaking.

There aren’t enough apprenticeships for that

Ah the old “plumbers earn £100k a year myth”

surprisingly it’s still £100k as it was in 2010. Should probably be a £200k a year myth now.

tell me you don’t know any tradespeople without telling me you don’t know any tradespeople

I would discourage them from going to a college-turned uni

Totally agree. DNephew went to one to study music... 2 years later and he's only managed to get a pt job at screw fix. Still living at home as not enough money to do anything. .
It doesn't help that he's introverted and sadly not very talented either- mum had grand dreams in the classical music scene with violin and chello lessons from age 5 or 6.
I think selling DC unrealistic dreams attached to a degree is beyond cruel.

My BIL is an electrician and he has earned a lot of money doing it. He has no pension and his body is wrecked and he will probably have to keep working forever. He also fucking hates it and has been bitter and miserable for years.

It's difficult.

On the one hand, I would not want to squash DC's ambitions/preferred course.

I mean there must be a some rich people or wine making places that want people skilled in wine tasting?

On the other hand, the fees and accommodation are just eyewatering and you could be racking up 50-100k in debt, depending on course length, location etc.

Sometimes when you push people to do things they don't want to do, it all fucks up.

Very very difficult.

@mindutopia

You say wine tasting is a Mickey Mouse degree but brewing sounds similar in "hobby" status however I know a young man aged 27 now who did brewing science at university and is now doing incredibly well as sold his fledgling business to a bigger brewery for well into 7 figures!

@Badbadbunny DC had a similar experience with not 'belonging' to a specific cohort. DC was left with a very jaundiced view of uni in general. Came away with a 2.1 in Chemical Physics and a first in inter-departmental diplomacy.

Some law firms prefer you to study a traditional university subject at a top uni and then postgraduate law college.

Agree with this. Despite the myth, electricians are the highest paid trades, not plumbers

its not unusual for an electrician to be able to earn £70k a year, but they will likely be self employed- no annual leave, pension contributions or sick pay.

and like many trades, they are unlikely to be working past 50 as their body will be wrecked. Then what do you do until retirement? (if you can retire- that’s expensive with no employer contribution to your pension, plus you’ve only worked for 35 odd years)

not a career I would ever encourage my children into. It’s dangerous too.

I agree, this is a complete myth. I don't know anyone that works in a bookshop, I do know someone who has done very well in law, publishing and journalism.

Am also advising DC to steer clear of forensic science. There are 66 universites offering 271 courses in forensic science, but according to the University of Kent, onlt 200 graduates are recruited into the industry each year. Those are very long odds.

Nothing wrong with working in a bookshop😎

I agree! Book shops are a dream job for some! Author visits, knowing all the latest releases, selling something of cultural value

Waterstones etc are huge companies with career paths!

Aside from continuing to work in bookselling, a stint working in bookshops is a pathway into publishing. I know three directors in major publishing houses who got interviewed for their first publishing job through that route. As undergraduates their degrees were English, American Studies and Classics.

I’d avoid long expensive degrees like architecture which may be hollowed out by AI.

being saddled with student debt and then changing stream is a disaster.

unless it’s for a degree that is a desirable skill in other countries in case you want to work overseas. The advantage of going overseas is also you won’t be require to pay student loan

Much as I agree that higher level apprenticeships are the direction a lot of young people should go in, they just aren't available in the numbers needed to replace going to university.
I really worry for my kids. I don't think university will be the right path for one of them, maybe both. If they choose to go I'll support them. It makes me sick that they'll leave with as much debt as they will.

Interesting. I have 1 doing architecture in a ‘top’ uni and 1 who did a very niche creative degree in a world-class institution housed within a ‘lower’ university.

The latter is much, much more likely to be working in their chosen career long term than the former, despite architecture appearing to be a ‘safe, high status vocational course’.