Page 25 | Why are accommodations for autistic people often seen as unfair?

YourPoisedFinch · 2025-02-19T09:39:20+00:00

In my last job, I received some accommodations and explained them to colleagues when they asked why I was coming in late. Instead of understanding, they accused me of fraud and faking my condition to get special treatment. This isn’t just my experience—many people with mental health conditions and other invisible disabilities face similar challenges. They’re either not believed and resented for receiving accommodations or believed but then negatively stereotyped.

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 10:42

Perzival · 21/02/2025 21:58

That reply you've quoted wasn't a reply to me. Not having an accomodation or autism shouldn't result in suicide.

I'm really glad that you recognise your job isn't worth your life but please do seek further MH support.

Bringing suicide into a debate is manipulative or can be seen as such. I definitely don't want to cause such harm but the prospect of suicide shouldn't be used to shut down debate or as proof that something is true.

I don't doubt that you feel a need to commit suicide if x,y,z but that won't change my beliefs.

Please do get support, especially if this thread is triggering.

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We don’t use the term “commit suicide” these days, as it has not been a crime to attempt or complete suicide since 1961.

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 10:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 10:53

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Did you mean to be so rude?

That wasn't a spelling error, it was a mis-use of the wrong word, but as her reply was to me, and i understood what she meant, it wasn't an issue. There is no need for you to correct her.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:03

@AnotherMiranda your knot a hapy peple is u?

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:19

cockywoof · 22/02/2025 00:11

Sunflower lanyard are for people with invisible disabilities. I have an invisible disability. The fact that you assumed that I was using one of the accomodations afforded by a sunflower lanyard for any other reason than because of an issue related to my disability is on you not me. You are the one who is singing the story about how there are all these diagnosed autistic people pushing for adaptations they don't need. And you called me out as an example to support that. Apparently I didn't explain it well enough to you for you to understand that was what was going on. How many others have you done to same to? How many have you bothered to even try to understand as opposed to just deciding because they seem to be fine to you they must be fine? Advocate for people with profound autism. Absolutely. They need you to because they can't advocate for themselves. But I can advocate for me, and I will keep doing that. And as part of that I will also advocate for anyone who tries to suggest that people with profound autism don't also matter. I always have and I always will.

As I said - it's a race to the bottom and I promise you that the ultimate winner in this will not be anyone who gives a shit about people with disabilities. The reality is that support for people with profound autism is what costs money. That's the group that needs special school provision costing hundreds of thousands, the group who won't ever have paid employment no matter what anyone does, and the group who will never live independently. Money is spent on level 1/2 but that's (nicest interpretation) because the same amount money goes a lot further or (realistic interpretation) money spent now might lead to a reduction in the long term spend (eg work support programs).

There has been an explosion of all types of autism recently. No one really seems to know why there's been an explosion in profound autism but there has been. And even in the last year the voices saying 'is it right this group is taking up so much in resources' have been getting louder. I'm sure you can find some people in the autistic community amongst those voices, but they're not the real threat. The threat is people who don't want the money going to support people with disabilities at all. And if you fight with people like me saying I'm abusing a sunflower lanyard just because I'm an easy target for you today and that there are loads of autistic people who aren't really impacted, you are playing right into the hands of that group.

You're the one who is like a dog with a bone. You directly said you could cope without it but found it easier then went on to say you use it for transitions so someone you deal with doesn't think you're an arse. To be honest I can see why it's needed!

As for your rant about who you feel I should or shouldn't argue with, that isn't really up to you. If you read the thread back you'll see that it was you who read into what I wrote as a personal attack and made assumptions/ projections on what I wrote.

The truth is there are issues within the autism community between high functioning/ apergers (choose appropriate word or substitute for one you can handle, you get my drift) and those with profound needs/ their carers. It's well documented. What autism is has changed, what people perceive autism to be has changed making things harder for people with profound autism and their carers. Research has been cancelled around genetics because the part of the community that can advocate for themselves didn't like it, funding has been shared, accomodations are being made with the views of the communicative not those who can't, nt parents are quite often told that a complete stranger knows their child better because of a shared dx,professionals booed off stage, #actually autistic has caused all sorts of harm..... the reason the term profound has been brought in for use is to counter some of this for this group. They haven't just it's needed to be nice.

I would question you saying the money for those higher functioning goes much further. The money spent there usually goes on mental health support which isn't cheap.

The explosion of dx isn't just profound autism, it's across the board. More people are being dx'd than ever before and the percentage that are classed as profound I think is around 20 odd% from reports I think but wouldn't to check.

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:19

I was triggered by the mention of suicidal ideation as manipulative when I know the risk of suicide is so much higher in the autistic community.

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:22

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:03

@AnotherMiranda your knot a hapy peple is u?

No, I’m not. I thought disability awareness had advanced since the 1980s, but judging from this thread I have clearly been deluded.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:23

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:19

I was triggered by the mention of suicidal ideation as manipulative when I know the risk of suicide is so much higher in the autistic community.

It is but that doesn't mean it can't be used to manipulate.

Conversations and debate is a good thing but they shouldn't be shut down because someone may be triggered by it. If you read my earlier posts I actually did say I didn't want anything I posted to cause harm and reported the poster incase they needed support.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:24

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:22

No, I’m not. I thought disability awareness had advanced since the 1980s, but judging from this thread I have clearly been deluded.

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People are allowed differing views.

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:29

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:23

It is but that doesn't mean it can't be used to manipulate.

Conversations and debate is a good thing but they shouldn't be shut down because someone may be triggered by it. If you read my earlier posts I actually did say I didn't want anything I posted to cause harm and reported the poster incase they needed support.

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I don’t have the bandwidth to argue with you. As you were.

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 11:39

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:19

You're the one who is like a dog with a bone. You directly said you could cope without it but found it easier then went on to say you use it for transitions so someone you deal with doesn't think you're an arse. To be honest I can see why it's needed!

As for your rant about who you feel I should or shouldn't argue with, that isn't really up to you. If you read the thread back you'll see that it was you who read into what I wrote as a personal attack and made assumptions/ projections on what I wrote.

The truth is there are issues within the autism community between high functioning/ apergers (choose appropriate word or substitute for one you can handle, you get my drift) and those with profound needs/ their carers. It's well documented. What autism is has changed, what people perceive autism to be has changed making things harder for people with profound autism and their carers. Research has been cancelled around genetics because the part of the community that can advocate for themselves didn't like it, funding has been shared, accomodations are being made with the views of the communicative not those who can't, nt parents are quite often told that a complete stranger knows their child better because of a shared dx,professionals booed off stage, #actually autistic has caused all sorts of harm..... the reason the term profound has been brought in for use is to counter some of this for this group. They haven't just it's needed to be nice.

I would question you saying the money for those higher functioning goes much further. The money spent there usually goes on mental health support which isn't cheap.

The explosion of dx isn't just profound autism, it's across the board. More people are being dx'd than ever before and the percentage that are classed as profound I think is around 20 odd% from reports I think but wouldn't to check.

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i could talk to you all day about my feelings on some of this.

Myself, my brother, my son and my daughter all have Autism (and adhd) but are all very, very different in our presentations and needs.

Technically my DS18 would have an Aspergers diagnosis like my brother does, but while he is (selectively) verbal and can have an intelligent conversation with you, he is still profoundly affected by his Autism, and the co-morbids it bought with it (adhd, dyspraxia, arfid).

He can't feed himself, barely sleeps, and needs all his meals made for him, can't be left unsupervised for long periods of time at home and never when outside the house, will never be able to look after his own finances, drive, have a job, or a relationship, or live independently. He operates at a 25% social/emotional deficit.

The terminology of how autism is referred to based on need will always be problematic because each person is affected SO differently, and i don't feel that because of that spectrum wheel and spiky profiles that we can adjust accommodations legally. To me the model of continuing to judge each person with the diagnosis on an individual needs level is the only way forward.

cockywoof · 22/02/2025 11:42

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:19

You're the one who is like a dog with a bone. You directly said you could cope without it but found it easier then went on to say you use it for transitions so someone you deal with doesn't think you're an arse. To be honest I can see why it's needed!

As for your rant about who you feel I should or shouldn't argue with, that isn't really up to you. If you read the thread back you'll see that it was you who read into what I wrote as a personal attack and made assumptions/ projections on what I wrote.

The truth is there are issues within the autism community between high functioning/ apergers (choose appropriate word or substitute for one you can handle, you get my drift) and those with profound needs/ their carers. It's well documented. What autism is has changed, what people perceive autism to be has changed making things harder for people with profound autism and their carers. Research has been cancelled around genetics because the part of the community that can advocate for themselves didn't like it, funding has been shared, accomodations are being made with the views of the communicative not those who can't, nt parents are quite often told that a complete stranger knows their child better because of a shared dx,professionals booed off stage, #actually autistic has caused all sorts of harm..... the reason the term profound has been brought in for use is to counter some of this for this group. They haven't just it's needed to be nice.

I would question you saying the money for those higher functioning goes much further. The money spent there usually goes on mental health support which isn't cheap.

The explosion of dx isn't just profound autism, it's across the board. More people are being dx'd than ever before and the percentage that are classed as profound I think is around 20 odd% from reports I think but wouldn't to check.

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How about you do you, I do me, and we both agree to drop it?

AnotherMiranda · 22/02/2025 11:44

Perzival · 22/02/2025 11:24

People are allowed differing views.

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They are, but this discussion is going round in circles. I’ll be using my sunflower lanyard as needed, without the permission of anyone on this thread.

cockywoof · 22/02/2025 11:48

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 10:53

Did you mean to be so rude?

That wasn't a spelling error, it was a mis-use of the wrong word, but as her reply was to me, and i understood what she meant, it wasn't an issue. There is no need for you to correct her.

Edited

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I actually think the spelling mistake was from me originally and whilst I do recognise objectively it was a complete inappropriate comment I actually found it amusing because I've been trying to work out why idolation was showing as a spelling error each time, and my autistic reaction was actually 'oh wow thanks now I understand what that was'.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 12:58

cockywoof · 22/02/2025 11:42

How about you do you, I do me, and we both agree to drop it?

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Agreed 👍

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:13

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 11:39

i could talk to you all day about my feelings on some of this.

Myself, my brother, my son and my daughter all have Autism (and adhd) but are all very, very different in our presentations and needs.

Technically my DS18 would have an Aspergers diagnosis like my brother does, but while he is (selectively) verbal and can have an intelligent conversation with you, he is still profoundly affected by his Autism, and the co-morbids it bought with it (adhd, dyspraxia, arfid).

He can't feed himself, barely sleeps, and needs all his meals made for him, can't be left unsupervised for long periods of time at home and never when outside the house, will never be able to look after his own finances, drive, have a job, or a relationship, or live independently. He operates at a 25% social/emotional deficit.

The terminology of how autism is referred to based on need will always be problematic because each person is affected SO differently, and i don't feel that because of that spectrum wheel and spiky profiles that we can adjust accommodations legally. To me the model of continuing to judge each person with the diagnosis on an individual needs level is the only way forward.

Show quote history

I do recognise that some people who would be hf/AS have high support needs. The term profound autism has been given a definition/ list of criteria for someone to be placed in this group.

I know that when the dsm v was updated part of that was due to the lobbying of those with aspergers to be able to access support ring fenced for those with an autism dx (as well as removing the association with the name) especially in the states where medical insurance can be difficult to navigate.

Mental health is a big factor and I believe that needs to be really looked at especially for those who would/ should be able to function more. I believe part of the reason it isn't better addressed Is because of the autism dx. I know there have been cases locally where camhs have refused to dx mh issues as well as autism in some yp (all comes back to funding) even though the mh issues need targeted support. They've been challenged by parents about this.

I am for the spectrum being split again, it's in my son's interest so I'm bound to be. I'd like for more language and descriptors to be used rather than the censoring that sometimes happens. I'm happy to discuss and debate this in earnest however, I'm going out in a while. I believe debate is healthy and helps understanding for all.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:19

The spelling mistake came from WinterBones with me just copying while rushing. Whether it came from someone before that I don't know.

I will make spelling mistakes, I'm human and rushing. If you're going to continue to poke fun at it, it just shows you to be a bit of .....

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 13:20

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:19

The spelling mistake came from WinterBones with me just copying while rushing. Whether it came from someone before that I don't know.

I will make spelling mistakes, I'm human and rushing. If you're going to continue to poke fun at it, it just shows you to be a bit of .....

wasnt me, lol
They were picking on the use of Idolation instead of Ideation... but were being very rude about it!

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:26

WinterBones · 22/02/2025 13:20

wasnt me, lol
They were picking on the use of Idolation instead of Ideation... but were being very rude about it!

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My apologies, I've just scrolled through and double checked. It was me. Regardless, the message was clear and it is a bit dickish to carry on with it. I'm sure I'm not the first or last to make a spelling mistake.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:30

Actually I can't even see where I wrote it but will accept I did. However I did find where cockwoof did.

TigerRag · 22/02/2025 13:49

"I am for the spectrum being split again, it's in my son's interest so I'm bound to be. I'd like for more language and descriptors to be used rather than the censoring that sometimes happens. I'm happy to discuss and debate this in earnest however, I'm going out in a while. I believe debate is healthy and helps understanding for all."

But how do you split such a varied condition?

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:53

Giving those with profound autism their own dx is a start. I'd appreciate it being a complete new name separate to autism so it's more recognisable as to what the person presents like.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 13:56

As I said previously highlighting where mh needs are a large factor in how someone presents too so something like hfa with associated severe mh. I think this would be really helpful with for accessing services and conveying need.

ImagineRainbows · 22/02/2025 14:11

@Perzival I agree about it being split, how that would work I don’t know but there is a huge difference between how my son functions compared to someone with low support needs. I sometimes think when you say Autism people think of someone socially awkward rather than thinking of someone like my son who quite literally cannot function at all without significant input from carers.

Perzival · 22/02/2025 14:50

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/26/autism-neurodiversity-severe?fbclid=IwY2xjawImwr1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfz-HdiMlFYanURgO6_daMzTd73iuD-YpG4rSJ1vcQCoZW6nhnBaBm0NTw_aem_fxI6FSDiFGPLmwdterpIFg

This actually came up on my Facebook while I'm on the train (I follow the national council for severe autism). It's from six years ago and says that within ten years there won't be any difference between those with and without autism which maybe especially relevant to the thread purpose.