Why are accommodations for autistic people often seen as unfair?

[YourPoisedFinch]

In my last job, I received some accommodations and explained them to colleagues when they asked why I was coming in late. Instead of understanding, they accused me of fraud and faking my condition to get special treatment. This isn’t just my experience—many people with mental health conditions and other invisible disabilities face similar challenges. They’re either not believed and resented for receiving accommodations or believed but then negatively stereotyped.

Yes, you're 100% right I do need to work to my limitations. That was the entire point of my post. That 1 hour difference on a morning can make all the difference.

Sadly @YourPoisedFinch for my autistic adult son, no amount of reasonable adjustments will enable him to get into the workplace.

His social anxiety and his need/want to hide his autism from everyone, means he cannot currently have a job that involves people in any way at all. That also rules out any type of interview - other than an email only interview, which I’m not sure exists. He’s forging ahead trying to create some sort of online work he can do himself - Etsy type selling but it’s not easy and doesn’t generate an income of any amount to live on. He relies on PIP, as I have to support him so much but that’s all. No universal credit income at all.

The people who work with you are being arses who sadly do not understand autism.

Thank you. This is it precisely, thank you so much for seeing it.

I feel like both the police and the train conductor in this scenario both let me down.

The presence of a sunflower lanyard is neither here nor there.

The conductor works with the public, the public involves people with hidden disabilities, and physical disabilities for that matter and the rail service seems woefully unequipped to manage to support disabilities.

The police could have talked to me instead of about me. They could have called someone for me. They could have de-escalated.

The fact is that we autistic people can't rely on them to do this in a worst case scenario.

So we request accomodations as reasonable adjustments from our employers like turning up and hour or so later and finishing an hour or so later. By the time you've jumped through all the hoops to get your employer to agree that they can accomodate you, after all the meetings and the scripts about how you understand how this has a detrimental impact to the company, departments and your colleagues, and they've come back with their alternatives like a 9:15 start that they extend as wholly thoughtful and caring when it's still the same train you have to catch to be there for that time, and they've guilt tripped you because they're trying to make a special exception and they've told you you're not cooperating, and you've begged to speak to occupational health and they say well they'll only say the same thing and "we legally don't have to do what occupational health recommend as they're only offering guidance so there's no point really", and then you go through the appeals process, and sometimes have to take it to tribunal in some cases, that if you or a colleague are granted these adjustments as reasonable for the business to accomodate, it's a massive kick in the teeth for those around you to claim it's unfair because nobody wants to come into work for bang on 9. But nobody else is at risk of being detained by police or threatened with involuntary holds for a nervous system response, because they're not autistic.

It's even more of a kick in the teeth for the general public or even in office colleagues to start spouting stuff like everybody is a bit autistic, we're all on the spectrum somewhere, I know so and so who is undiagnosed, never been disabled by autism in his life but definitely has traits and manages to get on with it just fine.

I'm not without empathy to those who feel it's unfair, but just because something feels unfair does not automatically mean that it is unfair. I think poor leadership is unfair and I think poor acceptance of those with disabilities is unfair, but do I think working for an employer who is able to make adjustments to reasonably accomodate someone with a disability to remain in work to the best of their abilities is unfair? No.

Now you can pretty much pay your money, fill in an online questionnaire, and get your diagnostic certificate.

This is what you said. About autism specifically not ADHD. Please provide your basis for this statement. You've said that there's loads of autism in your family so clearly you must have actual experience of an autism diagnosis by questionnaire to so totally dismiss the condition as you have.

Same here Verbena.

My son is extremely clever, hardworking, diligent, honest, reliable but at the moment he is even struggling to engage in the job process. I sat beside him to even undertake and on-line chat with an employment agency specialising in neurodivergent graduates but he was in a state even with that. When they suggested just doing an email with the questions he was happy but sadly nothing has come from that yet and I can't get him to chase it up. He can barely speak to me regardless some stranger. He has selective mutism and even travelling places has issues as he would struggle if he was to get lost or there was some difficulty. He can get out of most things by googling etc but if his only option was to speak to someone I'm not sure he could. He is generally not too bad if someone speaks to him first, though they may only get yes/no type answers.

My heart hurts that the potential he has is wasted and his life is so narrow. I can't see him ever getting a partner for example. I hope that your son manages to succeed.

I think for my son he could potentially operate in the work place but he'd need to be able to communicate via email outwards and would need someone checking in on him and asking if he had any issues as he would find it difficult to be proactive from that point of view. I think he could definitely earn his keep doing something. he has a first class degree in computer science.

At the moment I am financially supporting him and his brother in Uni but I'm knocking on the door of 60 so realistically can't do this forever.

I feel you. I didn't have to fight hard for my accommodation but I know if I end up using it to the extent that anyone around me would notice, my career's over. To be honest, it probably is anyway because masking at the extent required to play the promotion game is unachievable with my current workload (about 50% higher than normal for my level) and I've been told that asking for a cut in workload would be seen as me not coping and therefore not capable of progression. My focus now is on how to get my head to a place where that doesn't matter to me whether I progress in my career.

It's all shit. I'll happily give someone my adaptation if they take my autism.

I'd also add that I'm at the end of my career now. I've worked since I was 16. In that time I've raised two children. I had 4.5 months mat leave with one and 5.5 with the other. I lived away from any family and had very little support, after school clubs and breakfast clubs and holiday care came and went at times. Due to bullying issues i had to move them schools but transport them myself. In the meantime my only parent was in hospital for months on end before she died, I've been through menopause etc etc etc. It's shit and hard, I totally get that. Luckily I've had understanding employers most of the time who have allowed me to make up hours in the evening, occasionally work at home etc so that really helped but wasn't always the case. I really don't wish that on anyone. However I still think that being autistic and having the specific difficulties my son has and other on this thread have tops all of that and people should be able to get appropriate support to allow them to function in society.

It's not a game of top trumps and if employers are able to be flexible with others then that's great too but I appreciate it's not always possible and in the same way, some jobs are never going to be suitable for some people with autism. Just as someone with two young children and no support couldn't take a job that required them to open a shop at 7am because of childcare, that might also not be suitable for someone with autism who can't function that early or can't speak to customers. It's understandable that neither can get accommodations in this case as it doesn't meet the employers need. I don't think anyone is arguing that the employer needs to employ the autistic person and allow them to start at 10 and hide in the back room.

The number of jobs available that are able to meet a disabled persons needs are always likely to be less than those than can meet the needs of those with caring responsibilities and in most cases caring responsibilities come to an end as children grow up and sadly people die. That opens up more opportunities for people in those positions but the suitable jobs for the autistic person might never increase.

Hi @BigBoysDontCry thank you so much. This sounds like our situation exactly. My son also is selectively mute but chats away to us at home absolutely fine. He also over I’d say the past 5 years, gone totally deaf when at appointments - so high is his anxiety! His hearing completely goes or goes to a low buzz where he cannot hear what the GP or person is saying to him. It’s so scary for him and makes him shut down from moving forward even more, as he knows it’s coming.

That is really good though, that you’ve managed to find an employment agency that specialities in helping autistic people find employment. My son doesn’t have a degree but has 2 maths/english GCSEs at level 8, he’s taught himself a difficult language from scratch and he plays self taught piano at about grade 8. That however won’t help him get a job where he needs an interview. He could teach English to the country he has learnt the language of, but he won’t speak online or show his face! It’s super tricky finding anything.

If possible, could you DM the details for that employment agency? Thanks. ☺️

Are you okay?

The OP has said she isn’t doing fewer hours. She just starts later and finishes later.

And even if it was a different scenario YOU have NO RIGHTS to know someone’s reasons for reasonable adjustments and what those adjustments are.

You’re a GP with that attitude! Oh dear, no wonder health services are so hard to access for autistic people.

Good lord.

Everyone has needs that aren't being met at work - even the people with reasonable adjustments. I don't get why people don't understand that work can be brutalising and things could be better.

There's a phrase 'negative solidarity': a phenomenon where individuals, often facing hardship or austerity, align themselves against those who might be doing better, essentially wanting others to suffer the same level of deprivation as they do, rather than seeking collective improvement.

This isn't hard, folks. At the point the minions are fighting with each other, those in charge are rubbing their hands. We used to know this.

Where do I say it was???

Ah, that's NT speak for 'I actually didn't realize that the processes for diagnosing autism and ADHD are very different and just applied what I had concluded from a Panorama program on ADHD to autism'. For what it's worth I actually do think there may be over diagnosis of ADHD and the diagnostic process FOR ADHD can be far too reliant on self reported symptoms. That does not apply to autism. I'm not discounting that there might be some corrupt medical practitioners out there who would diagnose anyone with autism for money, but then the same applies for back ache or pretty much any area of medicine really. Your family experience is not relevant because the people you mention with 'mild' autism haven't actually been diagnosed with autism and you actually don't know they would be.

But no need to apologize or say that you've realized you made a mistake. Far better to call me pissy and argumentative for asking you to justify your statement.

I don't mind people saying I have 'mild' autism - I manage to hold down a professional job, have family and friends and most of the time get through my days without melting down anywhere anyone can see me. I haven't melted down at work in about six months now, and I haven't self harmed in a couple of weeks - it's great. There are lots of autistic people who have it far far worse than me.

The issue is people who claim they understand and then say people are overplaying their autism for advantage, and when it's people in the medical profession it's even worse because we tend to only encounter doctors when we're already vulnerable.

I nearly ran out of a doctor's this week (I normally get DH to go with me but I just felt pathetic asking him as a grown adult should be able to go to a doctor's appointment without their partner). I couldn't cope with the over stimulation of the waiting room whilst sick and had to debate whether to leave, risk someone thinking I was being a snowflake asking for special treatment and a quieter waiting room, or risk that in the indeterminate time remaining before my name was called I'd end up melting down. I decided to wait and luckily for me it wasn't a much longer wait and so my meltdown didn't progress past the tears and suicide idolation stage. Even two minutes more and I'd have been rocking in the corner of the waiting room with everyone staring at me. I got myself through it by telling myself if I didn't fully hold it together they'd probably try and admit me. I'm very glad there's no pretty much no risk that I'll ever come into contact with you in that situation.

[Edited: and in the time I posted that the comment was deleted]

Quite. But it's easier for people to claim that a disabled person's accommodation is unfair than focus on the real issue which is bad management 99% of the time.

As you've seen from this thread. Apparently the issue is the OP is being completely unreasonable asking to work 10-6 rather than 9-5 in her job so that she can avoid rush hour traffic.

The question of course should be, why does the employer care at all. And if there's a good reason - well how can we work out a way to be more flexible.

There's also stunning lack of acknowledgement that parents are absolutely entitled to ask for flexible working arrangements. Bar for an employer to refuse is lower, but why would you sit around complaining about an autistic person getting to work 10-6 and not ask for the same yourself if that's flexibility you need as a parent. And if the employer can't give a proper business need then fight it, just like autistic people have to fight for our accommodations.

You missed my follow up message where I apologised for tagging the wrong person.

The term profound autism is now being more commonly used to distinguish those individuals who are hugely impaired in all aspects all the time so not a spikey profile. This has had to be done because of the impact of the nd movement on this particular group of people.

Also, I thought the diagram below may help as it shows how the dsm's definition of autism has changed with the different editions/ over time. More presentations are now dx'd as autism whereas previously they wouldn't have been.

I think people are fed up generally of autism being used as an excuse/ reason for all sorts of things in life especially where the accomodations don't match with what they've accomplished in life eg being a parent of children, hold a job, have a mortgage but require quick access at themeparks. It feels like an excuse to play the system/ get what you can. I know there are those who genuinely need accomodations but I also know people who don't and play the system in all sorts of ways.

My bugbear is that the people who are ultimately most lose out by those who game the system are those who are the most servely Impacted as the autism diagnosis means so many different things it doesn't convey anything.

This. Pretty much nails it. The employer needs to care about anyone in their employ who needs accommodation because of a disability - that’s the law and if they can’t make reasonable adjustment then they need to show why. Otherwise they’re leaving themselves open to legal action. Parents are entitled to ask for FWR but unless they do so they can’t expect to be accommodated - exactly the same as the disabled people who, in my experience as an outreach worker, are too scared to declare a disability and ask for the adjustments they need because they fear they will be viewed differently by their colleagues and accused of being unfair. So they run the risk of burning out or being unable to cope when the facilities exist to make things easier.

There are plans yet to be announced by the government to try to get as many disabled people as possible off benefits and into work. If we are to achieve this then those who will be working with them need to stop acting like children in the playground and accept that these adjustments have been long fought for by disabled people and their advocates and are necessary to ensure that the disabled get a fair shake in the workplace.

Hard agree. Divide and rule doesn’t just apply at government level.

Yes, exactly. It's in society's best interest as well as the individuals themselves to have more people working and contributing via tax etc. We need to try to give some equality of opportunity to people to have a better society for everyone.

Yep. People who dislike other people having reasonable adjustments are in for a hell of a shock once so many disabled people are forced back into unsuitable working environments, because the amount of adjustments that will be needed are astronomical compared to how they are now.

Go on then, who would be diagnosed autistic under DSM,-5 who wouldn't have been diagnosed autistic or Asperger's under DSM-4.

If your beef is with Asperger's now being considered part of autism then go have that out with the APA. Stop implying there are a body of people being diagnosed now who wouldn't have qualified as either before. It's simply not true.

Yes there are more conditions that fall under autism that didn't before. These people were always disabled - it's not a case that their didn't have a developmental disorder before and now they're being given out like candy.

I am quite happy to admit some have it harder than me. But I'm not clear why people like you need to make it out that I'm somehow making my issues up because I have what would have been called Asperger's before.

That's to the latest person who seems to have decided I'm making my condition up because I can speak and hold down a job. @Perzival

@cockywoof there's alot of projection going on there. If you read my post you'll see I quite clearly said some people do need accomodations but I'm also aware some don't and do play the system. Nowhere have I said you personally are making it up. If that is what you read into it maybe you should look at why?

You said yourself that previously separate dx are now being given a dx of autism as an umbrella term for many other conditions. The number of dx's given out has increased, I don't think anyone would argue with that. This isn't a good thing for everyone.

The increase in dx and the inclusion of much different presentations has impacted on the group of people who would be called profound/ severe/ classical etc hence the call for the use of the term profound autism. Google the Lancet report into it. There is less inclusion of this group in research, services etc

As a separate issue, I'll actually add that those self diagnosing or referring to autism as a superpower or identity are causing further damage. Of autism is something people can ID as where does that leave people who don't want to ID in but clearly have it?! It impacts services, accomodations and understanding for all those with a genuine need (likely including yourself there too).

I think people are fed up generally of autism being used as an excuse/ reason for all sorts of things in life especially where the accomodations don't match with what they've accomplished in life eg being a parent of children, hold a job, have a mortgage but require quick access at themeparks. It feels like an excuse to play the system/ get what you can

Not projecting - read your post.

So if you have kids, hold a job and have a mortgage you can't have an issue being in large crowded situations? I have actually never tried to get quick access in themeparks BECAUSE I'd feel terrified of looking like I was taking advantage. Instead I simply don't go if there's a chance it will be busy, and accept I can't stay a full day (or have to pay for fast track). The type of attitude - the baseline assumption that somehow people like me are making things up to get benefits - is why I find it really really hard to wear a sunflower lanyard in an airport despite really needing one.

And then you went on to say the autism diagnosis now doesn't convey anything. But you claim that I'm the one projecting.

I'm not sure why people who aren't medical professionals working in this field think they get to determine who is 'autistic enough' to be impacted. Clinically significant impairment is a requirement for a diagnosis. I am not the person who made the decision that my symptoms met that threshold. I haven't seen any medical study that has suggested that somehow the label you get being autism rather than Asperger's has meant medical practitioners have reduced their standards for what is 'clinically significant impairment' but I'd (genuinely) be interested in reading any research you're aware of on this point.

I don't deny people with profound autism adaptations. I don't know anyone autistic who does. I couldn't care less what language you want to use - I have far bigger issues in life than caring about whether it's 'autism' or 'with autism' or 'ASD' v 'ASC'. If you think there are now issues for people with profound autism accessing services go and fight for them with providers. Go and push for medical research (and/or fund it).

Stop making other autistic people the problem. It's not a race to the bottom.