Thread 18 Starmer: All sides of the House agree apart from the Trump bootlickers

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5264338-thread-17-starmer-treading-softly?page=40&reply=142243865

NEW: updated long-run gap in voting between young men and women in Germany: Gender divide continues to widen, but contrary to what is often assumed, young men continue to vote roughly in line with the overall population, while young women have swung sharply left.

To spell out the stats more clearly: Young men’s AfD vote is somewhat higher than the national average (25% vs 21%), but their leftwing vote is even more above average (15 vs 9). Whereas young women’s AfD vote is significantly lower than average (14 vs 21), and leftwing vote far higher (34 vs 9).

The overall story is of young Germans rejecting the established centre-right and centre-left, but while young men are shifting to both populist flanks, young women are shifting overwhelmingly to the populist left.

https://bsky.app/profile/jburnmurdoch.ft.com/post/3livzahm7v22g

article https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998

TL;DR: "Up yours Elon".

I hope "there's a word for that in German" 😀

Bootlicker

NEW: Donald Trump’s demand for Ukraine minerals is ‘reasonable’, says Boris Johnson

“America has a history of demanding a price for its support, and from where I stand today, I think that price is reasonable”, the former PM told ITV

pretty sure it will have the word Arschlöch in it

Zelensky should invite the Chinese in for their bid.

I wonder what his response would be to why the UK provided weapons and whether we should "demand a price"

What does Ukraine get in return?

All I have read is that Trump demanding access - no mention of what support comes with that. Previous support has been freely given by previous administrations. Is access to the minerals a retrospectively applied charge? Or are the US offering something else?

i'd love to understand better how this feeds into China and Taiwan. Presumably NATO wouldn't be of any help in the South China Seas.

As the Middle East is discovering, US "aid" is now being repriced by Trump. Another development in the US becoming an unreliable actor. Personally I would hold of any investing in the US if I could. Compliance isn't my forte, but having moved amongst them, I know they are now flagging up the potential risk of being unable to use the US courts to enforce a contract.

Weirdly, for the middle east, this may prove a Good Thing in the long run. Trumps wrecking ball tactics will have shown the various countries in the region that all of a sudden their squabbles are not so great in the face of an unstable US. As is happening in Europe. I doubt that is Trumps goal though.

The ironic thing is it would be the US great power that would be driving these alliances.

Well that's given me food for thought 😬

Some interesting polling about UK attitudes to NATO.

66% of Britons continue to support the UK's membership of NATO, and only 5% are opposed

Support: 66% (-1 from Feb 2024)
Neither support nor oppose: 13% (-1)
Oppose: 5% (+1)

Support for the UK's membership of NATO among...

Lib Dem voters: 82%
Labour voters: 76%
Conservative voters: 74%
Reform UK voters: 57%

While 68% of Britons say the UK should keep its NATO collective defence obligations in principle, this willingness changes depending on the country being attacked

Since Feb 2024 there has been a 16pt drop in the British public's willingness to aid the USA in the event of an attack, while attitudes towards other countries remain unchanged

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51672-ukraine-should-be-allowed-to-join-nato-say-britons

Support for the UK's membership of NATO among...
Lib Dem voters: 82%
Labour voters: 76%
Conservative voters: 74%
Reform UK voters: 57%

What would you expect from a Putin appeasing party ? I look forward to Farage squirming now. He either makes it clear Reform does support NATO (unlikely as that's not what Putin is paying for) and lose the already converted. Or he rejects NATO and sees all those moderate votes he needs desert him.

Who would have thought something as old fashioned and square as NATO would prove to be on everyones mind in 2025 ?

NATO - the one thing we know Putin really fears.

Barrister Richard Link for the CPS told the court that Mr Gill agreed to make statements in the European Parliament for money, that would "tend to benefit Russia in relation to events in Ukraine at that time".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c241n65qz9do

... blimey! I did wonder when I saw that Anti terrorism were involved what the bribes were related to, he may be ex-reform, but he was still reform & Brexit party .

What's the saying - You are who you are by virtue of the company you keep.

A release of the Russian interference report now would be timely.

I think there were quite a lot of limitations placed on the Russia report and we probably needed something with a broader scope and to be truly independent of the government (remember the attempts to get Grayling in as head of Intelligence and Security Committee before it was finally released?).

That said I suspect we'd have been able to read even less of such a report.

Former Runcorn MP Mike Amesbury sentenced to 10 weeks in prison

What an absolute fool. By-election will be interesting.

Violence should lead to a prison sentence.

Er, aren't we supposed to be mindlessly defending him and pointing to a Tory MP who walked on the cracks in the pavements.

Otherwise we will make all those simpering shits who accuse and have accused us of being blinkered look like idiotic simpering shits. Surely the definition on "unkind" ?

It’s to be hoped he has the decency to step down rather than waste time waiting for a recall petition.

It's at times like this, we need to ask:

"What would Boris do ?"

Go on holiday?

Take a leaf out of Trump's book and sack the judge. What conviction for assault? Fake news.

He's no longer a Labour MP though.

I think the inevitable by election will take place, but all parties in the run, Labour, Reform and the Tories will have issues. It'll be interesting.

Be interested to she how - if at all - the Tories try to distinguish themselves from Reform. Will international issues be serious enough to feature in voters minds ? Will Labour push the international dimension ?

Personally I'd make sure my campaign centred around the suggestion that if you vote Reform you'll have to learn Russian, and let Nigel and the Boyz refute that rather than being able to slip into their more usual "but everyone else is shit - look a brown person" campaign tactic.

@SerendipityJane The Tories and Reform split the vote last July and I can see a similar thing happening this time around. Link below gives the July 2024 result. Lab: 22,358 Ref UK: 7,662 Con: 6,756.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/E14001455