Are nurses advised not to say sorry?

[Hamsterley2i3]

My mum is currently in hospital. She has dementia and is rapidly declining.

So far she's been left wet over night, in soiled nightgown after catching c diff, pain meds have been delayed, missed meals.

None of the nurses have said the word sorry. It would come so naturally to me in a conversation, if someone approached me and politely said 'my mum hasn't been given her pain medication ', my instant reply would be 'sorry, I'll get that sorted right away'.

I was wondering if it's something they're advised not to say as it admits error?

Christ, I’d be grovelling if anyone I looked after was left like that.

Absolutely appalling. Please take it further.

I'm a nurse.We are not taught to not apologise! We are taught to care, think holistically and stick to prescriptions and times of medications as the absolute basics. Sounds like your poor mum is being cared for by a team which has lost motivation which is dangerous. Write it all down and complain.She will need you to advocate- don't be afraid to be a 'difficult' family member

Thankyou both for your replies. I have spoken to the sister every time an incident has occurred, no apology though.

Mum is being discharged on Monday and I'll be by her side all weekend so we're over the worst of it thankfully.

I’m also a nurse. So unfair of you to make this assumption. The care OPs mum is receiving isn’t acceptable but it also isn’t acceptable for you to assume this is due to a lack of motivation. You know the pressures we’re facing. Don’t do our profession a disservice by making such unsubstantiated assumptions

No nurses aren’t taught not to apologise…in fact it’s the opposite open disclosure is recommended.

What do they say in reponse to your concerns? Like the pain meds one, I would presume would go like: My mum hasn’t had her meds yet, nurse - oh sorry about that I’ll find out what’s happening, would be the obvious response in my opinion so that’s so strange!

you should complain op
nhs staff are absolutely taught to apologise,
even if they say I am sorry you feel that way, or some such waffle

i wonder if the apparent lack of compassion is a symptom of moral damage caused by constantly working in an environment where they know they cannot do a good job (large chunks of the NHS) and fatigue caused by feeling like they have to apologise for everything. Chronically understaffed wards with complex patients, ever increasing amounts of pointless paperwork (the paperwork is very much more highly valued than actually achieving the care that the paperwork is suppose to reflect), pressure to do more/work more shifts/not take breaks, etc etc mean that people just become burnt out, ineffective and accept 'just' doing the minimum. The next step is going off sick due to burnout which means more money gets spent on bank/agency staff (because lets face it no one's going to apply for a permanent job there) & firefighting day-to-day so less is available to actually improve things. Knowing this, of course, doesn't make it any better for patients/their relatives who are receiving substandard care (and it absolutely is substandard), but the majority of staff in the NHS are decent people, a lot of whom are a bit broken by the system and trying to preserve their own sanity so they can carry on limping along and the service doesn't get even worse. Complaints are the only language that the management will care about, but all a complaint will accomplish is that the staff will get told off for 'not reflecting the Trust's values', and while 'the Trust' won't do anything to help them actually achieve good care, they'll just make sure everyone apologises for not providing that good care (or what's currently fashionable is spending huge amounts of money providing 'resilience training' and small pot plants (really not kidding!) to staff so everyone's a bit more jolly about providing naff care!).

I think many agencies have the training that apology means accepting blame and if you're sued, you need to be able to weasel out of accountability or responsibility by not accepting blame. It's a legal thing and I've experienced similar from a GP practice.

i was always told complaints are welcome so it can be an excuse to request more staff

People in most workplaces are told not to say sorry. I think it's a stupid rule personally.

WTF?

What is "unfair" here is the utterly appalling lack of care OP's mother is receiving. It seems reasonable to me to speculate the nursing team is (at best) lacking in motivation.

Are the staff you are raising these things wih responsible for them? I've been making a conscious effort recently not to apologise for things that are not responsibility. I mean in life in general I'm not a nurse.

So was the person you spoke to about meds either the person who should have done it or the charge nurse in which case an apology is reasonable or just a random member of staff.

I think you need to complain properly to PALS.

Greybeardy has hit the nail on the head perfectly. Nurse for over 20+ years and its management who should be made to apologise. They are the ones who think it’s fine to staff 24 elderly beds with 2 registered nurses and 2 care assistants for 12 hr shifts. That is why patients meds are late, and left waiting for care, toilet assistance fed etc. How do you start to prioritise- relatives want their own loved one seen to first, as the nurse it’s an impossible situation. I’m amazed there are any staff still willing to do this 😞 It’s support and recognition not criticism and blame we need.

Loss of motivation my well be due to the stress and awful working situations they are being placed in but that doesn't mean patients should be left in soiled clothes or left in pain.If people don't flag it and complain nothing will change for the staff having to manage these conditions and patient safety is put at risk.

@Pinkpillow7 was just about to type the same. Not acceptable treatment for the OPs mum but also not acceptable for @growinguptobreakingdown to assume lack of motivation! Deffo complain OP to the ward sister and escalate higher if needed. Hope mum home soon

Deleted because I misunderstood the post.

The problem is an apology is an admission of guilt, which raises the question of liability.

surely you can apologise without taking the blame though

NHS Resolution would certainly have an opinion in the matter! Approach PALS.

'I’m also a nurse. So unfair of you to make this assumption. The care OPs mum is receiving isn’t acceptable but it also isn’t acceptable for you to assume this is due to a lack of motivation. You know the pressures we’re facing. Don’t do our profession a disservice by making such unsubstantiated assumptions'

@Pinkpillow7 the nurses in question are doing your profession a disservice. Voicing that, isn't.

Absolute balls. I understand the pressures, I'm surrounded by it every day as a sister on a frailty ward. No patient should be left wet all night, lack of staff or not. Basic care is not being adhered to and I urge OP to make a formal complaint.

When my late husband was in the Acute Stroke Ward at the local hospital, the Charge Nurse complained to me that he wasn't eating. (He was diabetic.)

He couldn't sit up, couldn't use his left hand and his right hand was shaking. They brought in his meal: an ordinary plate with a slice of quiche and peas. Ordinary cutlery.

I saw the CN and asked why they'd not had Dh assessed by an OT for appropriate eating implements. Only response? "I'll get a doctor."

Doctor: "Well, now that you've drawn our attention to this..." which was where I lost it.

"Hello?! This is the ACUTE STROKE WARD!"

I think that all the HCP are taught to avoid "Sorry," so that they don't admit liability.

ETA They also failed to notice that he'd developed a UTI from being unable to drink.

And in answer to your question OP, we are taught to be transparent, admit any mistakes, apologise and make them right as soon as we're able. I would absolutely apologise and find out from the staff then and there why they thought it acceptable to leave your mum in a wet bed.