How bad is it to be rude about boss in WhatsApp messages

[lurchersforever]

Obviously it's ill advised but what actual grounds for discipline would there be?

The messages are from lockdown when we were all bored/stressed and are rude and insulting about the way boss was handling the situation.

Fout people in the chat. One person has now revealed them to the boss out of malice. Boss has said nothing for a while then revealed he has seen them but lied about where he got them.

Where do we stand?

This isn’t relevant though. You can have frustrations of course, I’ve worked for some right fucking pricks, but that doesn’t mean I can go on social media and call them a fucking prick and think that’s acceptable and that I will have no outcome, even if they’ve been a fucking prick. You might not think that’s right, but policies and things are in place for a reason. So whilst, as I said earlier, it’s unlikely anything will come of this it doesn’t mean that it’s okay to use swear words against your boss on a platform that might fall under the company’s social media policy and OP should get some advice going forward and admit the mistake if required to.

Morally you might disagree, but that’s not how things work.

You missed out:

¤ The person being bitched about

I personally would see this as a breach of my own privacy, lthough I guess arguably as you put those comments in writing to her she had the right to share them elsewhere.

As the devices are not work devices, I'm really struggling to understand how any formal process could be instigated. Isn't this the equivalent of someone tattling that at the pub on Friday night Sharon was bitching about the boss?

Often unfairly.

I would approach boss and apologise, somethings along the lines of 'we were just venting and it was a stressful time which caused some frustrations to be wrongly directed at them. You have the upmost respect for them and hope you can move forward from this'

I would approach boss and apologise, somethings along the lines of 'we were just venting and it was a stressful time which caused some frustrations to be wrongly directed at them. You have the upmost respect for them and hope you can move forward from this

Obviously do not do this. This is terrible advice if a potential grievance hearing is forthcoming.

Check your IT and social media policies, and your disciplinary procedure.
Be clear on whether you have breached them. I've just checked mine and if you worked at my organisation you would be in clear breach of the social media policy and have committed misconduct - arguably gross misconduct too.
If you have breached the policies then you need to get ready in case there is a disciplinary hearing coming your way. Join a union if you're not already in one (and if your workplace recognises them). Have your own copies of all the screenshots so you are clear on what is being alleged. And also find evidence to support your case - eg can you prove this was limited to letting off steam in the pandemic and nothing has happened since? Have you got positive appraisals you can point to, since then? Can you evidence professionalism and integrity in your work?

It is completely irrelevant if some posters think this isn't a big deal, if it goes against your own workplace's policies. As I said upthread, I personally know a colleague who lost their job for this, so it really does depend on the organisation and on the policies in place.

Work devices or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is OPs employer's policies on social media, bullying etc and if they've been breached.

OP hasn't confirmed if there is formal action being taken against her, or if her boss is simply 'having a word' now that these messages have come to light. If it's the former, as PPs have said, OP needs to check those policies and form a defence.

He’s mentioned it. I assume if he thought it was uproariously funny he wouldn’t have.

Just because it’s not in works time or device it’s free rein to do and say what you want without repercussions

an easier example is if you go on a works do out of work s time and it all kicks off because it was work related even though it’s out of work time you can still face consequences at work

It's not the device that's the issue though - it's the fact that OP was daft enough to write down her complaints and share them with another colleague. Once those messages are out there, you can't take them back.

You can't compare it to someone bitching down the pub as there's generally no evidence of that other than hearsay (unless you're stupid enough to do it in front of your manager, I guess).

I don't think a private message is the concern of a work place but I know that others may disagree. I think WhatsApp or text messages are and should be private , the individual who has shown others messages is in my view appalling and has beached trust. Hard for a manager who has seen them as naturally they will feel upset. Too often work places think they own every bit about their employees - they don't

It doesn't matter what we think though - it depends on workplace policy and what rules they have about written communication.

Workplace policy can be unjust and does not always trump the rights of free speech. For example people are allowed to express their views about politics or other issues - the employer pressure at times breaches that through the clause of "bringing the company into disrepute." I do think it is unwise to share views in a multiple WhatsApp group about an individual whether it be workplace or otherwise, however on a one to one I think people should have that freedom.

So should the Police whatsapp scandal remained private?

Huwe Edwards had indecent images on whatsapp.

School kids have inappropriate stuff sent through whatsapp.

Cheating messages etc

Where do we draw the line that it's private and what happens on a chat stays on the chat?

The dobber-inner for whatever reasons, came clean and owned her part in telling the boss. Might be self reflection or spiteful but at least she's come clean.

OP has an opportunity to own her part and apologise.

You have a previous grievance, though upheld and you hate your boss, so what's the worst that can happen?
Disciplinary action or a new job, life goes on.
Like someone said on another thread:
You are not your job.

As it was a personal device as long as nothing said was racist/homophobic or particularly vile etc.

I wouldn't say anything. It was a private chat, you're their to make money not friends.

If I wanted to be nice I might say something like it was a frustrating time for us all and I didn't know you as well then. I hope we can just move forwards

Where do you draw the line though? As @Treesandsheepeverywhere says, there are lots of situations where people have been "found out" via WhatsApp.

So if you were exhonerated and all of you are consistent can’t you raise a grievance against her- at least to get to the point where you don’t have to work together? And releasing private messages 4 years after the fact is shit stirring.

I would go on the offensive.

if employees were sacked for moaning about bosses/LM there would be no workers. Personal abuse crosses a line though.

I have a basic rule in life, never to write anything, anywhere, that I wouldn't want to see on the front page of a newspaper. It has served me well...

Yep, that's basically what I was taught too. Basically, never write anything down that you wouldn't be happy to say to that person's face!

It wasn't a private message, it was sent to a WhatsApp group. Even so, that's not relevant if the employer's policy treats WhatsApp as social media (which many do), as even a one-to-one message could be actionable.

Every phone has a screenshot button, so that 'private' message can be sent to all staff or put on the public internet with a couple of clicks.

People are getting bogged down with where the messages were sent, but it's the content that is the key issue. Bullying is bullying whether it takes place on WhatsApp, in the office, in the pub, on Facebook or scrawled on napkins.

OP (a manager) has (I expect quite deliberately) not gone into much detail on the exact content/duration of these conversations. If we're talking about months of sustained insults from a manager to other employees about their boss, that's absolutely actionable.

At the very least, we're looking at shockingly poor judgement, which has its own consequences.

NEVER EVER write anything about anybody that you wouldn’t say to their face …. and especially your boss 🙈

Well if we say What's app messages aren't private on a private group then presumably we are saying text messages wherever they are sent aren't private, for that matter anything written on ink and paper isn't private, perhaps phone that can be recorded or even conversation which can be recorded. Yes where does it stop - so basically perhaps on a message board like these where no name is given then maybe that is not private. I agree there is a line - where that line stops is not definitive.

@Ilovetowander

where does it stop - so basically perhaps on a message board like these where no name is given then maybe that is not private.

I’d work on the assumption it’s not.

Qatar isn’t the only employer, certainly in the airline industry, who has tried to force forum owners to reveal the identity of posters down who have posted adverse comments on message boards.:

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/autos-transportation/pilots-say-qatar-airways-monitors-and-muzzles-staff-online-idUSL8N2U40W9/

Well, that's why people sign documents for security, because although it may be confidential, someone else might leak it for their own benefit or out of malice.

NDA are a thing because of exactly that reason.

Unless we make the people we have online conversations with sign confidentiality agreements, they're free to screenshot, photocopy or forward any interaction with whomever they choose.

It's not morally right in some instances, but in others, it exposes wrong going ons.

Like many have said on the thread, don't put anything in writing you wouldn't say face to face.

Your work place sounds toxic especially colleague who has revealed the messages