How bad is it to be rude about boss in WhatsApp messages

[lurchersforever]

Obviously it's ill advised but what actual grounds for discipline would there be?

The messages are from lockdown when we were all bored/stressed and are rude and insulting about the way boss was handling the situation.

Fout people in the chat. One person has now revealed them to the boss out of malice. Boss has said nothing for a while then revealed he has seen them but lied about where he got them.

Where do we stand?

That's sound common sense.

Are you from the tory party? Lots of stuff went on there too.
I've learnt, if you are happy to have what you type broadcasted then you'll be OK, if not leave it out.
Apologise and you've learnt a valuable lesson, the boss will appreciate that

Well you'd be completely wrong there @Shrinkingrose but I like the way you associate being low-paid with being 'fools' and you seem to assume everyone involved was female too. Nice.

Everyone vents about their boss at times, and sometimes that is deserved. I say that as someone in a management role. Normally you would do it in a staff room/in the pub on a Friday and it would be verbal. Those outlets weren't available during Covid and so stuff got written in messages that never normally would have been. Add to that the fact that we were front line staff and, objectively speaking, some of the decisions made by management were questionable/slowly made, and that had an impact on us, and you can perhaps see how the messages came about. Not great, definitely foolish, but not bullying and never meant to be shared outside the group of 4.

Untill HR get involved on your conduct keep our of it. And dont discuss it with anyone in.work.

You need to be extra professional and make sure your boss is aware of potential problems before or as they happen.

The other party has sucessfully helped to undermine your relationship with your boss. But keep in mind if you has not provided written proof you would not be having that problem to begin with. I would focus on reparing that relationship

Surely it’s fairly standard isn’t it? WhatsApp can be a place to vent just as the staffroom can be.
A decent manager should be reflecting on why he made you feel that way rather than looking for any kind of retribution.
I can see it’s embarrassing for you though. How unpleasant of the person who reported this.

@Shrinkingrose
I would think very poorly of you. Not in terms of what you thought of me, I’d not care about that, but I’d see the abusive messages and assume that’s the type of person you were.

But the OP states the comments weren't personal, they were professional criticisms. Surely, a manager should care very much what their employees think of their working practices and attitude?

I'd be embarrassed if I was the manager, to discover that my employees thought so poorly of my ability.

Do you have a workplace policy about social media use? If you do, does it say anything about the kind of issue that you have described in your OP?

Unless the WhatsApp comments violate the terms of a social media policy, I'm guessing that it would be hard for your employers to take any formal action over them -- unless they were so egregious that they could be framed as harassment.

If it is not in work time and not on work devices or work accounts then they surely can't take any action without the backing of explicit terms in a written policy.

Many companies will consider WhatsApp to be social media. OP should check her own policy.

It's not as simple as saying that WhatsApp is private messaging - there can be WhatsApp groups with 100s of people in them. I can lock my Facebook/Instagram account down, and only have two contacts and that doesn't necessarily stop what I say on Facebook/Instagram being an issue.

Most companies will take a different approach depending on whether this was messaging one on one, or to a wide audience, but some may actively specify that WhatsApp is considered social media, in which case if the manager wants to cause an issue OP arguing it's not social media isn't going to help!

Depending on exactly what has been said, it would be a pretty petty manager to take disciplinary action over employees moaning about them in a small group nearly 5 years ago. That's assuming it wasn't discriminatory in some way of course.

As an example, lots of the teachers at my school also have children in the school and so are on class WhatsApp groups for their children's classes (not where they are the teacher). Of course a school would look to enforce its social media policy against a teacher who made negative comments against the school on that type of group. You can't just say 'it's private messaging'!

Depending on your relationship with your manager I too would consider having a private face to face meeting to apologise for your unprofessional behaviour at a stressful time (Covid), that you deeply regret any embarrassment and distress the messages may have caused. Assuming the statement is true you can reassure them nothing of a similar nature has happened since and won't ever again.

Start looking for a new job because that manager will never have any good will towards you now and don't write anything down you don't want quoted or attributed to you in future

Up to a point, People are entitled to say what they like in a private conversation. There is no need to apologise to anyone. Your boss needs to develop a thicker skin.

A colleague at my work was sacked for doing exactly this. Her messages "found" their way into the public domain and the subsequent disciplinary found her in breach of the work social media policy.

In your case - check your policy. It is absolutely irrelevant as to whether pps say WhatsApp is private messaging or social media; what matters is your own employers' policy. As WhatsApp has broadcast channels and groups etc, many employers class it as social media.

The length of time that has elapsed here goes in your favour. But you surely have to realise how stupid it was to write these sort of things down. It's not the equivalent of ranting in the pub - messages can be screenshotted and shared with the world and, as you've seen, come back to bite you.

You've proven yourself to be unprofessional and - in the field I work in - my position would be untenable and I would be looking for another job.

There’s a big difference between venting, which is a moment of frustration, and sustained bitching, which is bad for working culture.

I think you need to own the harm your words have done, saying you had to bitch online because the pubs were shut doesn’t address that your manager must be pretty hurt to pursue this 5 years later. If I was your manager, I’d want to hear your learnings and reflections more than your reasons - are you sorry for what you did or just sorry you got caught?

If you’re a manager now, were you then and were the other group members the same grade or is there a potential issue about modelling poor behaviours too?

@FeelinTwentySixPointTwo Really? In my field it would be pretty mortifying and would really impact the relationship between me and my boss (they'd be really hurt) but it wouldn't make my position untenable and I'm pretty senior. Obviously if it had been shared around the company as a whole or publicly it might, but not just because my boss had seen it.

OP - If the boss brings it up again I'd just apologize profusely and say it was a tough time and you were venting but it wasn't personal.

It is very common to vent to friends at work about work. I am sure there are WhatsApp messages sent by people who report to me moaning about me at times. I don't want or need to know about them unless it's feedback that I can actually do something about - people are allowed to vent and sometimes things I do are shit for them (sometimes my fault, but often because I'm the voice of the company and so am the one who has to turn down promotions, give bad news about pay rises, enforce a return to office policy etc). If I was the OP's boss I would be doing my best to pretend this had never happened and not want to talk about it ever again!

[This is taking OP on face value and that the messages were primarily a disagreement on what their boss was doing rather than being personal insults].

Genuine question because I see this behaviour all the time on this website - if you have "no idea" as to the answer to OPs question and nothing particularly helpful to add to the conversation (unless the OP can acquire a time machine), why respond?

I rather take exception to this. I have worked for nearly 50 years, and have NEVER vented about my boss to colleagues / co-workers. Not everyone is small minded and bitchy.

No, these are private discussions between people like over personal email or text, nothing to do with work. So what if you felt that way about your boss or other colleagues, thats what you thought at the time. If challenged about it I would say 'yes, the situation was badly managed in my view and I was talking to my colleagues about it privately as a private conversation which I am entitled to do'

Nothing different to going to down the pub and having the same discussion verbally

I'd be pointing out that during lockdown this is the equivalent of a moan in the kitchen.

Everyone feels moments of frustration. Absolutely every employee of every level has a moan to a colleague occasionally.

There was no other outlet for this in lockdown as you couldn't physically see each other.

Unless your workplace also plans to monitor all social spaces and discipline people for those conversations, they are treating you unfairly.

I think not treating it like a big deal might be better. Yes we said it. Stress and emotion was high but we've all worked well together for more than four years after this and you are unhappy that private comments made in unusual times five years ago are being used out of context. I wouldn't be overly apologetic as that feels like an admission of major wrongdoing.

Any boss that thinks no one ever gripes about them is in fantasy land.

The boss hasn’t said a word, so why do you think they need to get a thicker skin?

Which is it
¤ Self employed working solo
¤ So small mimded you never see the problem
¤ Dont GAF once you get paid
¤ A doormat
¤ Great at picking like minded people
¤ Very very Lucky
¤ the bestest employee in the world

This is spot on!

I do feel like Covid lead to unrealistic expectations for both employees and employers. Lots of finger pointing about how you should be allowed to work from home/ not work etc.

In lots of places people just wanted to argue, moan about the situation.

I think this analogy is good, but personally I’d ask for a meeting, apologise and ask to move on.

That way you disarm the situation.

It’s very unwise to speak about work or work colleagues in a negative way, in writing. But everyone makes mistakes. I once complained about my boss in an email and actually sent it to him 😬.

What did you say? Was it anything that could be seen as discriminatory or particularly offensive?

Otherwise, while it could be seen as bullying and if it is part of a larger picture then maybe they could investigate and start a disciplinary process. However, just on its own I think it would be highly unlikely that this would result in dismisssal.

Lesson 1: don’t write your frustrations down. Ever.

Given it’s only just come to light, they could investigate and carry out disciplinary action. But you can counter to say that the stress of Covid at the time meant you were not in a good space, and you acknowledge that these messages are at best hurtful and inappropriate. You can apologise for the understandable hurt caused, and clarify that those messages don’t reflect your current views of your boss who [insert positive feedback if you have any].

Beyond that, there isn’t much more you can do really.