How bad is it to be rude about boss in WhatsApp messages

[lurchersforever]

Obviously it's ill advised but what actual grounds for discipline would there be?

The messages are from lockdown when we were all bored/stressed and are rude and insulting about the way boss was handling the situation.

Fout people in the chat. One person has now revealed them to the boss out of malice. Boss has said nothing for a while then revealed he has seen them but lied about where he got them.

Where do we stand?

None of the above. If I have an issue with the boss, I talk to them to resolve it. Bitching to a colleague is not going to do anything, all they can do is agree with you and nothing gets resolved, and you have no way of knowing if the colleague us going to report back. - case in point

They are work place communication.

Under UK law you can sue your employer over what happenes in the pub.
So they in turn can formulate policy and sack you for what happens outside work.

I also manage people and I would not be bothered as long as it wasn't particularly nasty or personal.
It's normal for people to bond as a team and complain about work, whinge about management a little. Everyone needs to vent. It can be healthy. Enforced positivity is far more damaging imo

Basically you had a conversation in your own time five years ago slagging off your boss, but which happened to be text rather than in person. Now one of the people in the group has scrolled back found it and shown it to the boss? I feel like there's one person here who comes out really badly and it's them.
I don't think your work should have the right to police conversations that happen outside of work time.
I don't have any advice beyond never trust that person again.

This a lesson learned, and your attempt to show empathy with a work colleague has resulted you having to endure such a toxic work environment. I don't understand why someone would throw their mates under the bus in this way, whilst also damaging their own career. You could fight it, but it may be time to consider changing jobs to escape this place and the people who work there.

Venting is not being small minded and bitchy.

Its a free expression of you views which can be professional, polite and well reasoned critique of why the issue was not resolved in way that best met your needs or viewpoint

The employer cant action the critique.
But can action the level of politeness or personal attacks.

Assuming you are in the UK, Id phone the ACAS helpline and find out your legal position. At first glance it looks like you had private conversions on your own time on non work devices , but you’d need to check your contract so see if it covers anything like that.

You can also get their advice on the grievances .

ACAS is free and confidential.
https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

Why on earth would you get involved with something like this? Absolute madness. It often gets. Never write your frustrations down unless you are happy for people concerned to see them.

Although some people dont think whatsapp is social media Google/Ai do

Is WhatsApp social media?
Yes, WhatsApp is considered a social media platform. It's a messaging app that allows users to share content and interact with others in communities.

Explanation
Content sharing: WhatsApp users can share content, such as images and ideas, with others.
User interaction: WhatsApp users can interact with each other, including seeing if others have viewed their messages.
Community engagement: WhatsApp users can engage with each other in communities.
Although WhatsApp is often considered a messaging app, it's also considered a social media platform because of its content sharing and user interaction

I suppose you are going to have to wait and see what happens next.

@AnSolas

Check your policies whatsap will fall into anything from SM to bullying to data protection.

Yep, the “down the pub”, not workplace conversation defence isn’t sure fire protection with some companies, certainly not if there’s any hint of bullying or worse involved..for example:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/british-airways-fat-shaming-stewardess-staff-suspended-b2567727.html

Not for this they cant dont be ridiculous

If I commit a crime outside of work and that breaches something to do with my employment, then yes I might find myself out of a job but going down the pub, or being somewhere and complaining about my boss or colleagues isnt going to lead to any action

I wouldn’t worry much about it, everyone bitches about their boss and if he can’t take it he needs to get a bit of a thicker skin or a different job as a not boss. On private devices outside of work time and 5 years ago there’s not much they can reasonably do. Obviously if it was in work time or something really uncalled for like calling the boss a paedo that’s different. Maybe a lesson not to trust anyone at work though and save your venting for face to face with your partner maybe

Just own it.

"Yes, I said those things. I was under insane pressure and couldn't just go down to the pub for a cathartic chat so the discussion probably got a bit out of hand. But it was a mental time - don't you remember? I don't stand by any of that now, everything is great no normality has returned".

Remember how the MP Louise Mensch got called out for doing coke and pills in her 20s. She laughed and said "I don't remember the incident but that sounds just like me in my 20s to be honest, it's probably true". And it blew over very quickly.

Don't over react or over correct to the cruelty of your colleague in sharing this message. I suspect they are only digging their own grave here. Anyone can see it as dickhead move.

Switch your WhatsApp to disappearing messages.

I own my own business and tbh I would be surprised if my employees didn't bitch about me sometimes. It's par for the course of being a boss. I do my best to be fair and approachable but can also be a hard taskmaster when the chips are down. In those circs my colleagues definitely need a venting outlet. It's why I don't join them in the pub every Friday - they need their own space. It's normal and it's healthy.

My right hand man is very honest and will always tell me if there's a serious grievance or unhappiness mounting, so I can take steps to fix it, whether that's changing my own approach or something about the project itself. General bitching? Who cares!

If an employee dobbed his/her colleagues in, I'd look askance at the dobber rather than the dobbees, tbh.

However OP I am interested in your passing mention of a previous grievance which you were investigated for. Does this relate to the same, discrete bout of Covid bitching or was it about something else...and is there a pattern of behaviour?

But clearly you were happy to share that particular sanctimonious, poorly-written gem.

I agree. Doesn’t actually reflect well on your boss that he’s raised it tbh.

whoops / meant to quote @PercyFone

We use WhatsApp messages as evidence in employment tribunals and grievance/disciplinary proceedings. If your boss raises a grievance it won’t matter that the messages were from years ago if they show a pattern of behaviour.

“Due to the “end-to-end encryption” on texting platforms like WhatsApp, it appears there’s a misconception over their admissibility. While this function may prevent external interception of correspondence, it doesn’t stop internal review should it become relevant in employment tribunal proceedings. Thus, this end-to-end encryption doesn’t make a relevant text message inadmissible court evidence.

Notably, a key reason for the rise in text messages used as court evidence pertains to their informal association. When users message via texting platforms like WhatsApp, there’s a tendency to be less conscious about professionalism. With this in mind, ‘banter’ and ‘casual remarks’, often not found in correspondence like emails, tend to creep in.

If overlooked, due to being admissible in court, such messages could reveal discriminatory attitudes and unprofessional behaviour usually not found in official channels.”

I think this happened a lot in lockdown. People were stressed and bored and often forgot the people in senior positions were stressed and up to their eyes dealing with a very difficult and unheard of situation and therefore criticized etc. It was a very challenging time for everyone for different reasons. It sounds like the chat did get out of hand and possibly is hurtful to your boss. I couldn't handle thinking id hurt someone and not acknowledged that I'd called it wrong so I would initiate a brief chat to apologize and clear the air with boss. Unless he's awful then he's a person too . It's not nice to be talked about negatively.

You made a really bad choice about who to share these thoughts and words with, though, someone who has now turned on you and is trying to get you into trouble and will go to these lengths.

Is there a lot of it? If it’s just a brief reaction to specific events that’s one thing, if it’s pages and pages of comments on someone’s character or appearance, if it’s cruel or discriminatory then whatever you say, it could be bullying. And bullying often grows out of private communication - in the canteen, in the pub, on WhatsApp or on email. So it’s hard for pp here to know. How bad was it, how much of it was there, how long did it go on for?

If it was a few quick comments on a couple of occasions when everyone was frustrated, it’s doubtful the target will be that upset although they will never see you again in the same way. If there’s just way too much of it, it went on for way too long or its really offensive, then I think you need to think hard about what you are going to do.

What comes over to me in your post is a lack of empathy for the person who was the target of these attacks and a strong sense of poor me I got caught.

Honestly, I could not give a shit what anyone wrote about me 5 years ago. If anything I would ask if there were any issues they had now and invite them to share.

The fact that the other employee raised a grievance then went back x amount of years to bring something else would raise a lot of flags with me.

tbh I would be surprised if my employees didn't bitch about me sometimes. It's par for the course of being a boss. I do my best to be fair and approachable but can also be a hard taskmaster when the chips are down. In those circs my colleagues definitely need a venting outlet. It's why I don't join them in the pub every Friday - they need their own space. It's normal and it's healthy.
My right hand man is very honest and will always tell me if there's a serious grievance or unhappiness mounting, so I can take steps to fix it,

Exactly that, though I was in a different situation as a teacher in a special school with a team of four TAs.

I think we always worked together well and that I was a good leader who cared about them, and they always had my back as far as I could tell. But given the type of job, I'm pretty sure that there would have been times when they had a good old moan, and as above, I didn't tread on their space to do so.

Having said that, if I was shown WhatsApp messaging of them doing so, it would be a hard read. A moan in the staff room disappears into the ether and is forgotten quickly. Put anything on paper or text and it's there forever.

Irrelevant

Of course it’s not irrelevant, don’t be silly

No that’s different. The OP’s situation is more like this: if a teacher had 2 or 3 work friends in a WhatsApp group chat, and in that private group, complained about the headteacher / SLT actions. Then one of the group shared it.

People are actually allowed to “behave unprofessionally” when not at work. Your workplace don’t own you.

Exactly this....
Rachmorr57 doesn't need a slow clap*

So that 'slow clap' can go to those that are referred to in the OP's post who are worried about the repercussions of doing so.