Middle class but no money

[roopiea]

Does anyone else feel like this?

We would say we are middle class. Both university educated and privately schooled. In our 50s now. Parents had similar professions to us.

We work for the public sector, a teacher and management in local government. We live in a pretty reasonable part of the country. But we still feel we have no money for being in the middle class? We probably earn a combined 80k a year but live in a pretty bog standard 3 bed semi. Have holidays in places like Spain or Greece.

Whereas our neighbours are blue collar workers but seem to have so much more money than us. My best friend and her husband work similar jobs and they have a nicer house and better holidays than us.

There has always been a ribbon of insecurity running through MN, that one can remain steadfastly middle class because it is a way of life, a values based enclave and club that money can not touch. Incredibly it is rather brash to be too wealthy or comfortable after all

I think this attitude long predates Mumsnet. It was prevalent among the aristocracy before the Industrial Revolution when they distinguished between those whose (good) wealth came from the land (old money and the values that went with it) and those whose (bad) wealth came from industry (new money, hard work technical innovation) but do not know the old money code) cf Downton Abbey and their attitude to the American money they are living off or Gaskell’s North and South.

What is interesting is that many of those clever people whose work underpinned the Industrial Revolution still aspired to be part of the land owning aristocracy. They married their daughters off to the impoverished but titled, or sent their sons to public schools to turn them in to „gentlemen“ .

Yes, private tutoring def the way to go to top up your very ordinary salary.

Loving all the OP’s updates.

Loving all the OP’s updates

Indeed, almost like this wasn't posted in good faith...

Did a levels, had a place at uni but didn’t go as too well what would be called anxious now I suppose to leave home as I had a very controlling mother.

work in finance in a senior management position now. Child at grammar but she’d have gone private if she’d not passed the exam.

My best friend and her husband work similar jobs and they have a nicer house and better holidays than us.

Why do you think this is? You must have some idea if it's your best friend.

Why would you not be able to survive on 40k?
This is a take home of about £2700 a month. My mortgage is £1700, council tax & basic bills £500, that leaves £500 for food, clothing, travel and all other costs for a family of four and two animals?

We would not be able to survive on £40k salary.

Agreed. I'm middle class due to education, but piss poor due to my profession.

As I assumed by reading your post, that you are an intelligent, articulate person of substance - and successful. Why are you measuring yourself on your parent’s choices?

I mean fair enough like I said if you have a high mortgage and suddenly got hit with only 40k income after being used to having a lot more for years it will be a struggle to keep up.
But I've survived with less than 500 leftover for food, clothing and other things. A lot of people do in fact. It's being melodramatic to say you wouldn't survive.

But in all fairness I've never been a pet owner so maybe they cost a lot more than I thought?

Why are people talking like it's £40k for the whole household? OP said it's £80k combined.

Exactly even half of that isn't too bad. Op also said they're so broke they have to holiday in Spain and Greece.
Sorry but that is not broke. Broke is going no where unless you live walking distance to the beach 😂

Before we retired we earned about £55,000 between us. We were both Civil Servants though we had had other jobs previously. I was from what was called a working class background and my partner was lower middle class.

We are OK in retirement just about as we are mortgage free, but have not been on holidays since before Covid as they just isn't ever any spare £££. Our combined pension income is not too bad but when stuff breaks or needs replacing its a struggle. We had to have some emergency plumbing done recently and the price was quite good but it's set us back a bit.

Most trades folk do make good money and it seems perfectly reasonable that they should as many are self employed and do fairly long hours. As to class distinction, although I got to a management position in the Civil Service I never considered myself anything other than working class as that's where I came from and I left school at 15 with virtually no education.

The Uk still though is poisoned by this class thing to a huge degree in part as people are often still bound by notions that are positively feudal in some respects.

Same, middles class earning have dropped since OH business died but even during that it’s hard …….

It’s often impossible to know from the outside whether people really are better off financially. You don’t know what debt or savings they have. I often feel we seem worse off than others! We have friends who are genuinely rich so I just don’t even bother making a comparison with them. I do sometimes wonder with family members though, where I do know their earnings and inheritance (none!) who seem to have great lifestyles compared with us. But then I don’t know their savings, investments, pensions and debts! And it’s no good for posters to say don’t compare yourself with others. Great in theory except we all do it….

I would consider us to be a working class household based on our upbringings and education.

DP works in a skilled manual trade, and our combined income is £90k. I work part time so income is approx 70/30 split. He’d probably earn even more if he was self employed, but the trade can be quite up and down in terms of work available, and there are a lot of similar businesses in our area to compete with so for the moment we like the financial security of being employed whilst we have a mortgage etc.

Friends of ours (a couple) had similar upbringings to ours (state school education). One studied for a degree whilst working, and worked their way up the into management in the public sector. The other is in sales. Their combined income is well into the 6 figures, although likely a lot of that is from bonuses/commission. Would you categorise them as working or middle class? I genuinely don’t know. That’s why I think the “class” system is very outdated and irrelevant today.

Job and income wise you soung like lower middle class but may be middle class on values, attitudes, interests etc. Class in the UK is not about money but what you do and how you think and also how you dress.

Can’t wait for the crypto millionaires to start emerging in the next few years
two of the lads that worked for me got involved and did extremely well from a £300 start to into 7 figures and has held onto it
another one started with a grand and got up to middle six figures before losing the lot almost overnight
both lads still working for me and would consider them selves working class and both in their 30s

I always say you never know how people finance things, inheritance, a side job, credit cards. People could budget, it's the area people live in.

Think they’re meaning if they’d earned £40k (and their partner also) thus taking the household income to 80k.

we’d struggle on that much. Whilst it sounds like a large amount, as an annual salary before tax and deductibles- it’s not as a household income. As a sole earner then yeah but £40k is what I’d expect someone in their early career ie early 30s to earn (outside of London)

Middle class or working class has nothing to do with income.

This!

“Job and income are seen as the most important factors in determining social class in Britain”

Source: YouGov.co.uk 12/12/2024

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/51105-how-do-britons-define-social-class

Agree with this and probably had a similar upbringing.

Definitely not encouraging my kids to go to uni. It really only puts you in a better position to get a job. Have been encouraging my kids to think about starting their own businesses - it seems to be the most likely way of making any real money. I think a lot of parents who 'push' for uni now tend to not be educated themselves and see it as the be all & end all - like my working class parents did back in the 90's. Working class people have moved on now.