Middle class but no money

[roopiea]

Does anyone else feel like this?

We would say we are middle class. Both university educated and privately schooled. In our 50s now. Parents had similar professions to us.

We work for the public sector, a teacher and management in local government. We live in a pretty reasonable part of the country. But we still feel we have no money for being in the middle class? We probably earn a combined 80k a year but live in a pretty bog standard 3 bed semi. Have holidays in places like Spain or Greece.

Whereas our neighbours are blue collar workers but seem to have so much more money than us. My best friend and her husband work similar jobs and they have a nicer house and better holidays than us.

@chocolatespreadsandwich although just to add I am equally aware of plenty of people who bullshit their way to high salaries, as a civil servant I see that a lot. I'm not saying we live in a meritocracy, but I'm just not buying the "boo hoo I'm middle class and only earning £40,000, doesn't the world know what I am owed" sentiment. With their educations I'm sure they could have done more, if they wanted it, but they expected it from a time it was more of a given.

I agree with this. I'm afraid that during my long working life I have met many so called 'people leaders' who were utterly, embarrassingly incompetent but had friends in the right places and were untouchable. Funnily enough the majority of them tended to be older white males....what a coincidence.

British class is more about behaviours, thinking and outlook than income.

I do.

Sorry but it is a fat sum. Why would you not be able to survive on 40k? The average wage is less than that so over half of people manage perfectly fine. I'm assuming you have a high mortgage though so fair enough if your wage dropped tomorrow you wouldn't be able to keep up.

80k household income definitely is a high household income btw.

Hell I used to survive until recently on 23k. Now most people I speak to think I'm rich because I'm on 35k. But this is a small town (but not one of those cheap ones where you can buy a really cheap house) I guess your perception would be skewed if you lived in a city and surrounded yourself with other high earners.

I agree broadly, it’s much harder if not impossible to control what your teens are absorbing though, hence the issues that one inevitably runs into if the coffers have indeed run dry my friend!

Yes I think it's the working class (like me) who would be thrilled to be called middle class!! I'm not a working class and proud of it type.

I have what would be deemed to be middle class interests I think but with 2 parents who left school at 14 (although I did go to a private junior school) and did manual jobs I understand I am solidly working class. It's not something I think about other than when these threads come up to be honest though.

Did you leave school and follow a similar trajectory?

Yeah it’s a fat sum if you won it on the lottery but for a dual income household, especially for people advanced in their careers it’s not.

Now Op as gen x benefited more from low cost higher education and cheaper houses than subsequent generations but me with young children an 80k income would get me particularly far and I have really cheap childcare.

yes some of the population are managing on less, but you cannot tell me that they aren’t feeling the pinch.

i wouldn’t say my mortgage is exceptionally high, comparatively speaking it’s about 22% of our household income after tax, but for overall context, our bills inc childcare are about £3500, so yeah an income of £4000 would be a real struggle. We also got hit by rate shock really badly and our mortgage went up by £550 a month

You are very patronising! Maybe it depends where you are living as to what kind of cleaners you get and where they are from? In Gloucestershire it tends to be local people born and bred.
Brexit is also making it much harder for Europeans to work here.

You seem to have very little idea of what is actually happening in your own country.

There are plenty of EE people arriving here, living here and very happy to cash in on the incentives given the property prices are so vastly different in each country. If you have a ‘born and bred’ cleaner you are in the minority.

Maybe consider other areas of Gloucestershire such as the more deprived areas before you conclude your area does not have its fair share of cash in hand black market workers? Your car wash, nail salons etc etc. Clearly just invisible to you…

I mean I also have young kids and I'm generation zoomer (born early 2000s) so I'm not benefiting from low cost houses or education either. Still manage ok on a household income that's half of ops.
I can only assume a taste for the high life I mean a holiday to Spain was described as poor behaviour earlier in this thread.

Sorry I mean in the op a holiday to Spain or Greece is apparently "having no money"
I'm very confused 🤔

As a total aside, I just read that, was taken aback a bit, did the Maths and now feel old 😂

so you’re gen z, and about 10 yrs younger than me, so definitely haven’t benefited from low cost housing or education.

i guess some of it depends on where you live, as that will dictate your housing costs which for most are the largest outlay. Unless you live in social housing or were on a 10 year low fix surely you’ve felt the squeeze as a result of rising interest rates?

also if your household income is sub 40k then surely you get UC for childcare?

We did shared ownership so housing costs are cheaper than average rent in the area which I agree is extortionate at the moment.
I still think a lot of people expect to live beyond their means I mean the op describing a holiday to Spain or Greece as having no money gave that away.

Perhaps I am naive (perhaps not) but I try to be courteous.

Once we get into talking about black market as you describe, I think we are no longer considering the working class as per the subject of this thread but more of an underclass/modern slavery situation which in my view is quite different.

Take home income - essential payments = what money you have to spend on fun stuff (living).

Stop naval gazing about class (nobody cares except boring snobs).

There are lovely and dreadful people across all "social classes" and income brackets.

It's almost like some people lack the imagination to imagine a plumber could never buy opera tickets. Or a consultant surgeon would never watch love island.

There are so many batshit conceptions on here (it's amusing to be honest) but essentially pointless.

Money and/or education or a big house doesn't make you nice or fun.

I would much rather watch a football match than sit around discussing Byron's poetry.

Who was allowed to enjoy the darts the other night? Is that too low brow for firmly established middle class folk?

If you are on just above average wage but say supper and play the oboe are you acceptable to the middles?

Is a tradesman allowed to be grade 8 piano?

Are you allowed a white ranger rover and a cello?

It's fucking nonsense.

I agree. The Ops post to me read as entitled, just because they are ‘middle class’ and ‘university educated’ (barely anything special these days) they ‘should’ be able to have move than others and a mere holiday to Greece isn’t enough. Whereas actually if they’d have been born 10-15 years later they wouldn’t have been able to benefit from the free education and cheaper housing that they clearly have and wouldn’t be able to live as they do with their salary.

my point is, if they want to live like they earn more, then they need to earn more. Whereas it looks like the coasted.

@Itsbrtnybish I agree about the coasting. The reality is that what people think of as a traditional "middle class" lifestyle now requires a pretty high income and the kind of professional career that requires a bit more ambition and hard work - City lawyer, financial services, etc - or entrepreneurial talent. Mid-level civil service isn't going to get you there.

There has always been a ribbon of insecurity running through MN, that one can remain steadfastly middle class because it is a way of life, a values based enclave and club that money can not touch. Incredibly it is rather brash to be too wealthy or comfortable after all

This reminded me of an article I once read about the post-war obsession with class as a set of behaviours and values, Nancy Mitford, U and non-U etc which essentially arose as a reaction to the upheavals of WW2, which led to mass movement out of service (already started by WW1), and huge loss of capital and property by the upper and upper middle classes. The emphasis on behaviours and values was a sort of sop - you may no longer have housemaids and a private income but you are still better than your neighbour because you say “wireless” and they say “radio”.

Feels like we’re perhaps going through something similar now.

I know a Head who was caught doing this. She was told to clear her desk and be out of the building by the end of the day. Investigated and struck off.

So all her lying and cheating got her nowhere.

I know this has literally nothing to do with the subject being discussed.

I reported the head in this instance. So did the other parents whose children told them. She's still there a few years later. I hope she does get her comeuppance eventually though

Totally agree.
I've discussed trash TV with high court judges and highbrow literature with shop assistants and cleaning staff.

We need to stop thinking that any one aspect of someone's life defines them

I don't agree with your definition of the classes, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with your final sentence.