I’m a PIP assessor, happy to advise if I can

[Impr90]

Hello all,

If you’ve got any questions you think I might be able to help with, please let me know

All the best for the New Year

The system could easily make changes.

If appeal panels can look at applications, medical evidence, and the assessors report and make awards without needing to actually speak to people or ask for further evidence then the same award could have been made by the DM initially or at the MR. 91%of successful appeal cases do not involve any further evidence being involved. That’s a ridiculous figure.

There needs to be an honesty about why so many people have to appeal unnecessarily.

Then the government should be honest about the sheer cost of that. Appeals here can take up to 13 months. The building you go to has 15 rooms. That’s 15 rooms hosting an independent panel (at a massive cost) day in day out to the point that it takes 13 months to see people. You then multiply that by the number of places and the cost must be absolutely astronomical. 70% of people who go to appeal win. Would you keep your job if you made so many wrong decisions and cost the company that much in appeal costs?

I agree that medical evidence should be submitted and it is really concerning to have reports such as yours that do not accurately reflect the situation.

What can we as applicants do to ensure that the reports that are made about us at the initial stages are accurate?

Beyond recording the call (which you would think would be a heads up to the assessor to tell the truth).

@ARichtGoodDram I absolutely agree that the assessment system is very flawed. There is bias towards certain groups being more able to claim than others, not because the assessors are prejudiced, but because of the knowledge needed to make a sucessful claim.

The challenge is how to make it robust enough that the right people get the money - there is only so much so it needs to get to the people whose life it will make the most positive impact on. It's not a disability payment, it's a payment to maximise independence in those for whom this is reduced, not general 'bill money' which they would have regardless of the disability.

But that it's not so challenging that it puts those who will benefit from it most from applying.

And as you said making the process more cost effective, so more of the allocated funds go to people than than processes.

@Baileysatchristmas Within the current system I think recording and documenting are the best way to go unfortunately. You can also ask the assessor to summarise back to you what you have said, just being upfront about wanting transparency. I would also submit as much medical/professional evidence as you can.

I am a clinician and I am happy to write supporting statements for my patients, I am not medical though but the current system is very hierarchical so sometimes having support from someone with a Dr title can carry a lot of weight.

We will be applying for again for DC in a few months and I will be recording the assessment as a video this time and I will not be making that fact known to the assessor. We're just so fed up with being bullied but 3 out of 4 assessors have been lacking so what more can I do for my DC?

@Plastictrees I did all that - and the assessor still wrote lies!

I would like to understand what I could / can do differently next time so that I'm not in the same situation again because I found it humiliating and so so difficult from a MH pov - I have cptsd and having to go over and over and over it all was very challenging.

Do you keep up to date with case law? I ask because there was a thread on AMA not too long ago where the HCP wasn’t aware of some case law and was saying things weren’t considered when they are. I know this isn’t a problem unique to that assessor and is a more widespread issue.

Given the tiny levels of fraud that the DWP say happens I think the robustness is obviously good.

I do think we should separate fraud and error in reporting. It’s the errors that are costing a fortune atm.

i also think any cases that go to appeal and are awarded without any need for extra evidence or where the claimant doesn’t need to be seen by the panel should be recorded as error. Maybe seeing that error statistic would help show better that the big faults in the system are not the claimants - it’s the DWP and the system.

I also think there should be open transparency about overturned rejections. We get figures of “X number of claims were rejected” or for ESA “x number of people have been found fit to work” but we never get “x number of claims were rejected, but y number were reinstated/accepted on appeal at great cost”.

if the absolutely huge amount of money used on appeals that are unnecessary could be saved then the overall costs would be drastically less.

Legally you do have to get their consent to record them.

I think the advice by @Plastictrees was really good, to get them to feedback to you what they have understood. You may feel you have explained really clearly, but they may have understood what you said differently, so confirming understanding is very helpful. I do this all the time at work with my patients 'so what you are telling me is ....' and they may sometimes say 'sorry, that's not what I meant, it's actually.....'

Record the assessment.

You have to ask in advance and they will try and refuse it, but recording is the only way it can be completely clear

Yes it’s a complete nightmare and re-traumatising. There are many of us who have been actively campaigning for change for years. There has been change in Scotland so hopefully the DWP will follow suit.

Just be aware they won’t allow you to use the recordings in any appeal proceedings if they haven’t been agreed.

It can be a fight to get them to agree to recording the assessment but it can be done.

Totally agree with this. As a disability outreach worker I’ve seen claimants get turned down having completed the application by themselves, and on reading through it’s not hard to see why. Many don’t understand the question or answer a simple yes or no without clarifying anything. Another problem I always had was trying to persuade claimants that it’s not a good idea to complete the form from the perspective of their worst day - I found many claimants would technically be committing benefit fraud !!

We must assume that she has best intentions of doing her job properly, i think.

The OP won’t even acknowledge that her statement early in the thread that she makes awards is incorrect.

Peddling false information about her role, and the role of decision makers, doesn’t suggest best intentions.

Yes definitely check in and get feedback throughout, also if you can take someone with you this can be really helpful. Have another person present during the assessment, someone who can support you but is also someone essentially bearing witness to the assessment.

Another thing I do with my patients, and friends who are going through the process, is practice talking through each of the points on the form. Sometimes this can ease the anxiety on the day slightly as you can feel more prepared.

The recording equipment you use has to comply with their specifications too - otherwise you won’t be allowed to do it. You have to be able to record in duplicate and supply DWP with a copy of the recording otherwise you won’t be able to present it as evidence for appeal.

Oh grow up - this is a serious topic - OP was trying to help, turned into kindergarten squabbles .

Technically the OP is correct when she says that assessors make the awards - they award the points used by the decision maker to decide the level of award, and they decide the review period. Decision makers are DWP case workers with no medical training, and they rely on the assessors’ medical knowledge to ensure the level of award is correct. It’s not peddling false information, it’s stating fact. The decision maker will always defer to the assessment report unless there is good reason not to, and in that case they will refer back to the individual assessor to clarify.

Claimants don’t automatically get a copy of the assessors’ report - they have to request one. But in the cases where I’ve seen a copy, the case managers award letter basically reflects what’s in the report.

You don’t need specialist audio recording equipment. That was dropped. Covert recordings are also allowed. See this benefits and work article.

It is peddling false information.

The Op stated that the Decision Makers “sign off” on her decision and that is simply not the case.

The DM takes the assessors report into consideration and will indeed usually go with it (often will go with ignoring everything else!) but they do not as the op stated simply sign off on their award. That is false.

Another tip would be to make it clear from the outset that you would like a copy of the report.

I have known many, many people record PIP assessments and none have used specialist recording equipment as far as I know. I’m not sure if any of these recordings have been used at appeal though. The fact that so many people feel they need to record in order to get evidence is awful and really shows how much is wrong with the system.

You don't have to have their consent to record them. You can't use the recording as evidence without their consent but you can use a transcript.

This is incorrect.

Can it just be a mistake? My DH is disabled, he is in pain all the time, walking is very painful and he can only walk a very short distance. When he had his assessment the distance he could walk came up and it turned out his Consultant had sent a a report saying he could walk 3000 metres before pain became intense, he meant 30 metres. Don't know if it was him or his secretary but the assessor could see there was no way he could walk that far if his life depended on it.

I don't for a moment think his Consultant did it deliberately, he knew how serious the problem was.