Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I can't explain the appeal because to me it's just womanface and offensive.

What's your explanation of the term "fishy" in drag culture used to refer to a Queen who is particularly "feminine" ?

I dislike drag, mainly because it takes the laziest stereotypes of a whole section of society and parodies them to an extreme, and then seeks to denigrate the source material by creating word play names that are unpleasant and by referring to real women as fishes (you know, cos of that fishy smell!).

I also fail to understand how Tayce was able to talk about authenticity and keeping it real, when his entire act is extreme artifice.

There was no likelihood of him winning, but Billy Monger did a better job of keeping it real by recognising that he has physical limitations, and dancing a routine that was adapted to his needs.

Actually I thought Tamzin's dance was lovely, but she made a mistake which was a great shame.

You can like or dislike drag. The issue is that you now can't watch any quiz, or show, or chat show, without a drag queen being included? Why? Why are they so front and center? They are not talented or funny. Most people dislike them, they are rude and obnoxious, and get away with it, because, oh, you know, it's just an act. Too much TV has now just become a tick box exercise, rather than based on talent. It's tiresome.

Exactly this. I've come across all sorts of men being sexist and misogynist. Including gay men.

It is absolutely true. You seem a tad defensive about this.

And women haven’t been oppressed through the centuries up to today and on an ongoing basis??

You have precisely described the offence many feel - just replace the words black people with women in your own post. You have actually defeated your own argument. Good work.

And women haven't?

Goodness, what a load of nonsense. You seem terribly confused. Drag is not the same as being gay.

If you care enough to do some reading, then you will find that some drag queens are child abusers. Children's story time in libraries, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is a prime example of child abuse.

@Workingclasslass you are really not helping yourself here. The way you come across makes your arguments seem invalid as you don’t present yourself as anyone worth listen to. You seem aggressive, rude and rough as toast tbh.

Cannot stand drag, never have, never will.

We switched off at that point.

Yes being black is exactly like choosing to put on a costume. Fuck me, didn't take long for casual racism to drop in.

So why are you not really aggressive about the bigoted attitudes towards women displayed by drag queens? If you are serious about tackling bigotry surely that should be a fight against bigotry in all its forms.

Well yes I do find that particular name pretty crass. For some people it’s probably very upsetting. But do you think that all drag should be banned because one drag artist has chosen a name that is crass and insensitive? Do you think we all should have the right to say something that another person might find crass or upsetting? Or is the right to not be offended or upset more important?

For the record I’m not a massive drag aficionado or anything, but lots of people on here don’t understand how other women don’t find it offensive so I was just explaining my viewpoint.

One day, I hope drag is consigned to the dustbin of history, the same way black face thankfully has been.

Men portraying women with exaggerated features, OTT makeup and as over sexualised tarts is as offensive as white people portraying black people as having fuzzy hair, big lips and all walking around wearing striped trousers.

The whole drag thing feels more and more fetishistic too and the ‘humour’ often revolves around the premise of bitchiness and women competing with each other. Whatever these so called artists are, they’re not celebrating real womanhood, they’re mocking and reducing them to mere vacuous sexual vessels.

There are drag kings and I've been to some of their events but there isn't anything like the same market for them.

I don't mind drag as a concept; the whole point is that they're not women and women don't really dress or act like this. They can be funny. In context, though, the BBC pumps out an absolutely ridiculous amount of drag content and also likes to put men on lists that are supposed to honour women, so it can fuck off.

I agree, it's a horrible term. Another one to shut women up. We have a view? We're "pearl clutchers". I hate that term with it's lazy stereotype.

Agree. A lot of it seems to me to be parody.

There are always going to be entertainers that bend gender…even serious actresses like Tilda Swinton (think Orlando), or all the cross dressing in Shakespeare.

Drag is something we will look back on in years to come and think wtf were we thinking?

@OnlyWhenILaugh "What's your explanation of the term "fishy" in drag culture used to refer to a Queen who is particularly "feminine" ?"

This. And also nobody has ever explained why Cheryl Hole is a witty piss take rather than the sort of thing bullies would call a classmate.

I guess they over-index on these shows because it’s the entertainment industry, and drag is, I assume, all about putting on a show. I’m quite happy to admire the skill and artistry involved without focusing on the fact that it’s drag, which doesn’t really mean much to me.

Because drag kings is nothing different to the everyday woman. Apart from a stick on beard/mustache what exactly do 'drag kings' wear that is any different to what normal woman can wear daily?

If your female co-worker shows up to her job as a engineer in trousers and boxer shorts with short hair no one thinks twice. If your co-worker showed up to his job as a teacher in a dress/make up/heals, a thong with long hair you would cry out drag.

Why are clothes only socially gendered to female? women can wear anything men do but men can't wear more than half the clothes out their without people labeling it 'drag'.

I agree, @JohnPrescottsPyjamas . I look at them and think - how can they portray women like this? All the brave, courageous, hard working women that I've known? Portraying us as vacuous idiots teetering on heels, wearing too much slap and being bitchy.

It’s not for me in the slightest.
I find it very creepy.