The 50 rapists who could be any man

[Shouldnellly]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/19/who-are-the-men-convicted-over-rape-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot-

sickening to read of the normality of these men. From a tiny region. Everywhere

Hmm, that's true ..🙁.is it sa that drives rape tho? I thought porn might be? & upbringings where the cracks aren't brought to social services attention until too late? To reiterate, none is an excuse.

I just think that women naturally have more empathy for others as we can carry life, and feel more connected to other life.

Many men have absolutely no empathy

Many men can be brutal and cruel and feel they're entitled to sex.

Having said that , I have met some absolutely lovely men aswell. There are some really caring men out there.

So the growth in far right activism is all women’s fault too is it?? Nothing to do with politicians ignoring demographic change and growth?

It all really makes my blood boil, enough to rejoin this website. Women and girls get abused regularly. Is Gisele out right now sexually abusing men as part of the ‘endless cycle of abuse and violence’?

We’ve had this narrative of excuse due to childhood abuse for a long time now and has male violence against women and girls diminished one iota? It was on the up last time I checked.

Its more of the endless cycle of dismissal and patronising misogyny that women put up with and tell themselves because how many of us could bear to bear children and bring them up knowing that girls will be victims at some point of their brothers, fathers and uncles. It needs to stop. All the excuses for men need to stop.

We give them life. In return they give us endless violence. It needs to stop. The only hope I see for the future at this point is the dropping birth rate.

I have never met a single man that valued women’s time and needs as equal. Not a single one. Looking back I see nothing but patronising minimisation and dismissal, no matter how much I learned, worked and achieved. 1 in3 U.K. men have a criminal record someone upthread said. That’s the reality of these male apes.

It was interesting how few men were protesting outside the court.

^

This. They never do though, do they??

You know, for all the other humans (aka women)

Seriously why is it always a job for women to stand up against sexual harrasment and lobby for political changes.
Instead of men coming out in droves supporting women, who have been victims, it's always the NAMALT rhetoric and "woman can be abusers too."
Fuck that. The baseline shouldn't be not to be a rapist but name and shame every man who engages in sexist behavior no matter how small.

Though to be fair, those statistics include road traffic offences, cautions and non payment of tv licence

You don't know that and nor do I. Maybe men are born rapists and the way they are socialised stops that in many.

That would also account for why men who otherwise would not rape do so in some circumstances such as in war.

@TreeSquirrel "However that is more complex and more expensive than just screaming about all men"

Interesting use of "screaming" there. Just one of those little markers that are always there. A while ago this poster would probably have characterised the many thoughtful and engaged commentators on this thread as "hysterical" or something like that as he/she put the blame for mysogynist male behaviour squarely on women....

The problem with the not all men argument is that in this case it was all men.

50 identified men. Probably more that haven't been identified. And the husband contacted many more that didn't participate.

So the men either raped, or kept their mouths shut and enabled others to rape. All of them. Every single one.

It was the police who found the videos and identified the men involved from that. And they were paid to do that.

Not one single man that mr pelicot approached stepped up to protect women. Not one single man.

And you can't argue that they must have been hard to find. Most of them lived locally in rural France!

@Toastandbutterand

Yep.

Road traffic and other offences are very telling though - the rage and self righteousness is also part of the toxic traits they show and authoritarian beliefs that they are the most powerful and don't have to abide by rules.

The Pelicot case was shameful

This podcast with French lawyer re the case is interesting.
Isabelle Thieuleux, the Pelicot case, and Consent. on Podbean, check it out! https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-264yd-175e9d0

Nah hold on. Most of those men with shit childhoods would have had female siblings. Isn't it a miracle that girls who go up in poverty and violence don't grow up to be serial rapists*

OK rape needs a penis, but prolific sexual assault-ers?

I wonder how many men thinks rape is a woman having sex when she didn't really feel it but did anyway?

That's exactly the defence my rapist used

And he got off on the charge-found not guilty

He had denied it at first-'no policeman,we didn't have sex'

Then,when confronted with his dna in my undies,trotted this out

He claimed it couldn't have been rape as he wasn't hiding in bushes waiting for me,I'd walked into his room willingly (he was a friend) and he tried it on

I laughed and said no so he grabbed me by the back of my neck and pushed me to the side of his bed

He claimed 'I wasn't really up for it,but wasn't really in the mood,but had shagged him anyway as a pity shag as hed gone without for ages,before going to the police to cry rape'

He was up on 2 charges-me and another woman (3 weeks after me,our stories where so similar)and got off scot free

His then girlfriend stood by him as 'he wouldn't do that, hed never cheat on me' even though he took lots of trips to Amsterdam and he doesn't smoke weed

Women are just bodies to use for men-and our legal system sees it the same way

I've said since this happened 'rape is legal-we just go through a pantomime first'

Watching that bastard and his girlfriend walk out of court,all smirks and hand in hand,was the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with

Merry Christmas to you too

Ps.my actual point was how do we STOP this. And I wondered out loud whether their upbringing affected them in some way. Yes women don't commit the same crimes with the same upbringings so something needs to happen to prevent this from reoccurring again. Just saying it's men who are bad who do this doesn't prevent it from happening again (or we kill all men at birth?)

Less than 1/4 of them suggested they had been abused as mitigation. That's not an overwhelming number. The biggest common factor is they are male.

Are your married, have a son, father or brother? Offer them up first please.

@Tracystubbs I'm so, so, so sorry. Your story is unfortunately exactly it. I think many men just don't believe in rape.

He actually used the line 'I'm innocent,I'm not the sort of person who hides in a Bush and jumps out on women or follows them-THATS rape' (he's right,he wouldn't dream of doing that)

The jury agreed

Along with his girlfriend-he stood by him and refused to believe that at the bare minimum,he'd cheated on her,let alone raped two women and paid for concent more than once in Amsterdam

I said the the police at the time-'if not stopped,he will do it again and again'

They agreed but the jury (after putting me through two days of utter hell) didn't

He hadn't jumped out on me,he had the utter confidence that he's no rapist (as he genuinely believes he isnt) and I'd gone into the room willingly (I had-we where meant to be picking something up-i followed him in)

I even had my undies shown in court,had my past raked up (I was a single mum)asked if i was wearing a skirt (no,jeans,uggs and a top),my phone/sm checked and every single one of my exs spoken to (and a few had ended on bad terms so they didn't hold back on what a grotty bitch i am apparently)

He didn't have any of that-they spoke to his girlfriend and boss,didn't check either of his phones and certainly didn't check his sm

I find the calls for more men to protest at the courthouse interesting - I get the desire, but I struggle to see the benefit. Having worked at a courthouse, I would probably find that more intimidating than quite a few of the defendants (especially those who come from the prison who wouldn't see any protest). I would be concerned more for the safety of victims (many courts at least in my area house victim support), witnesses, colleagues, jurors having to get through a protest than really sending much of a message to the perpetrators. I've no idea how the court in this case handled that, I imagine it was a logistical nightmare.

I think there must be a better way for everyone to show their support of the victims and protest at the men.

Women need to feel relaxed and safe to feel aroused, and yet men get a hard on in the most awful on circumstances. It makes me sick.

This rhetoric is inaccurate and can be dangerous. Arousal nonconcordance is found in both sexes, both the not having any interest in sex while having physiological signs of arousal and having no signs when mentally interested.

The idea that women need to feel relaxed and safe has been used against rape victims when signs of arousal including orgasm have happened during the attack. The idea that signs of arousal means someone wants sexual contact has been used against children. This common myth has been a source of shame and pain for victims of all types. Erections - penis or clitoris ones - fluids, even orgasms can be achieved through stimuli without the person willing it, they can happen to a person who is very distressed.

In the horrific cases of boys being forced to penetrate, drugs and the perpetrator stimulating the boy and physically putting his penis in is known to the point it shows up as an aggravating factor that increases sentencing on the adults who have attacked boys in that way in at least England and I think the rest of the UK to my knowledge.

Though to be fair, those statistics include road traffic offences, cautions and non payment of tv licence

That stat comes from the Ministry of Justice and is specifically talking about men born in 1953 as of the year 2006, so alongside those, also includes convictions for having consensual sex with another man and similar. The report does not give a firm number for all men, nor have any I've seen. The closest is a loose estimate of 24% given for those who were 10-52 at the time of the 2006 report.

The same 1 in 3 number comes up in a 2010 report for people with an open JSA claim who had at least one conviction in the ten years prior. The stat, while interesting and has been used to discuss issues with gaining employment with a criminal record, means very little about the qualities of the people involved if we're not getting into what types of convictions.

@Tracystubbs I hope he dies a painful death and rots in hell. The whole thing, what you were put through during and after, the investigation of your phone, your life, it's all so wrong.

Thank you

'It's time shame swaps sides'

It really is that time-ive taken a lot of strength from Gisele-if this unbelievably brave,amazing and heroic lady can stand tall and be counted without an ounce of shame and all the bravery in the world,then so can I

She should be the woman of a lifetime and not just of the year

I hope her name goes down in history and she has my awe in how brave she's been

I hope her ex sits next to him and all the other men in hell