The 50 rapists who could be any man

[Shouldnellly]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/19/who-are-the-men-convicted-over-rape-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot-

sickening to read of the normality of these men. From a tiny region. Everywhere

Yep.

It's like the electric shock experiment they did after WW2 to see how much it would take for people to electrically shock and cause harm to another person Milgrams shock experiment I think it was and there were other similar ones, to see how people buckle to authority. Lots of participants needed little incentive, as soon as they found out they could cause harm without any consequences they were happy to do it.

Sidebar, but that's not what the Milgram shock experiments showed at all. People didn't enjoy it. Many found it highly stressful and distressing to administer the supposed 'shocks'. It does show how people will defer to assumed 'authority', but it doesn't tell us about sadism.

I think a lot of men are turning a blind eye to this whole story. Refusing to read the reportage. Not wanting to admit the ongoing epidemic of male violence against women. They don't want to see it, and they pretend not to hear it.

Rapists should have their balls cut off with a blunt knife.

They want to talk about their loneliness instead.

The trial as a whole has left me feeling numb. I suspect that the number of men who would do this in the UK is higher than we think. Research from the University of Birmingham suggested that 1 in 8 men regularly use prostitutes and this figure would grow if occasional use is included. Prostitution is a particular type of abuse I know, but in my head I am thinking that maybe 1 in 10 men are capable given the opportunity of sexual assault or abuse. Certainly not all men, but a very h significant majority. Maybe 3m in the UK. I am somewhat more wary than I was I thinl.

If police choose to do nothing, and courts allow offenders back onto the streets, what’s the average guy supposed to do? The system is failing men and women so its unfair to start getting angry at Joe blogs on the street about a one off event that happened in a different country

I've noticed that not one man I know has brought the subject of Gisele up in conversation. Whereas woman will.

Strange.

I bet they chat about Lily whatsherface

In relation to a PP about 9 years and so many men in a relatively small community not disclosing, I imagine this speaks to their all knowing what they were doing was absolutely and literally "unspeakable"?

I’ve stopped thinking of it as violence against women and girls and more as terrorism. In effect every act or threat of an act of violence terrorises all women and limits how they behave, which ultimately benefits all men. It sounds extreme, but when the media talk about acts of violence as though they are random / isolated it makes me rage. Along with this case I think of the woman who was murdered by one man then an unconnected man found the body and raped her.

There was a thread on here I remember from a few years ago where women were trying to explain to a male poster what it was like to be a woman and girl. He just didn’t get it - saying he certainly didn’t think his daughters woke up every day thinking they could be raped that day. He just couldn’t understand the drip drip from early childhood that is in women’s psyche and affects in subconscious ways.

A lot of the discourse about this case is very worrying. For example, I have heard people implying that there was some level of mitigation because she was his wife- but others implying that it was worse because she was his wife.....

A man's comment - not about the crime, the implications about men's behaviour or beliefs, but an excuse for remaining passive. Says so much, eh?

Yes, it's harrowing. How many men in your vicinity would rape you if you were drugged unconscious and they thought they'd get away with it? Turns out, quite a lot of them.
The one who tried to excuse himself by saying he thought Gisele was dead. I have no words. The depravity that many males, 'ordinary' ones too, are clearly capable of makes me consider all of them as potential monsters now.

if you really want to be further depressed, angered or both have a listen to the interview with the mayor (Louis Bonnet) of Mazan (village where they lived) done by BBC Sounds in the 51 Men piece (17 minutes in) - when asked by interviewer if he was diminishing the gravity of what happened he agreed he WAS diminishing it - "it could have been more serious if she was killed or a child was involved" but "this lady will be able to build her life back up".

Fucking grim. He seemed to be saying her unconsciousness made it less serious than the experience of a woman who could remember her attack.

And by loneliness they almost without exception mean “lack of sexual attention from random women”

Same.

It just all seems so dark.

I'm 53 and the more I experience, read about , I cannot imagine meeting any man I would want to date let alone be vulnerable with.

I've experienced one that thought that being asleep was enough of an open invitation. Fortunately I woke up and fought back before it escalated. It was in a full room sleeping off a party.

Some male members of the group continued the friendship although the offender kept away from the group as a whole after that. A strong kick in the face and decorating him with leftover buffet while he lept it off made the point that his actions were not welcome.

No idea if he learned his lesson. I found out after that he had an extensive collection of "magazines"

We won't get anywhere until men as a collective recognise the problem and call each other out at more minor stages of mysogeny and uninvited sexual behaviour. They won't listen to women.

This is a really insightful post and something worth thinking about. I wish more was being done to protect future generations in this way.

I read all the biographies, awful as it was to see what they'd done and the derisory sentences. A lot of them claimed that they had abusive childhoods, but I really wonder if that was played as a literal 'get out of jail card', it was repeated so often, and expect for a couple of cases, where as boys they were put into care, there's doesn't seem to be evidence that they were in fact abused.

Also appalling was that the partners of a number of them are standing by their rapist husbands/boyfriends.

I had a Greek boyfriend once who told me that he would be held in contempt by other men if he didn't take advantage of every opportunity.

@ZeppelinTits I think this work is being done now, there is increased awareness of these issues in the UK atleast but it's a long road and takes generations for these programmes to work and for that cycle to be well and truly broken.

There are certainly less women staying in violent relationships than 40 years ago, more people in power IE Priests and institutions where so many of these awful things in the UK happened to the young people sent there and some recognition of the need for therapy and support within schools and community's.

But ofcourse, regardless of what you have experienced only you are responsible for your own actions and so many of these men said they thought it was a game, or went back multiple times.

I cannot believe how brave she has been to bring this to light and truly hope she can see out her years not too traumatised but how that could possibly be I don't know.

The only conclusion I can draw from the total lack of comment on this case from men in general, and male journalists in particular, is a very dark one.

They think it's not news. They're not surprised because they already knew that a very large proportion of men would act like this given half a chance. Women are talking about this case because the sheer number of offenders from a small area and a niche website implied terrible things and came as a shock to many of us, but it doesn't seem to have come as a shock to any men.

Realistically, given what happens in war when men are given consequence-(to them)-free ability to rape, we should have known this already, but it still comes as a surprise to us each time.

It's a societal problem in my opinion. Men and women minimise male violence and the fact women are treated as lesser than men. Misogyny is everywhere, but possible to ignore definitely for men and also by some women. It's grim. Was talking about this with my partner and she said her eyes have been opened only in the last few years to the rampant misogyny in society. She was raised to accept it as normal.

If police choose to do nothing, and courts allow offenders back onto the streets, what’s the average guy supposed to do? The system is failing men and women so its unfair to start getting angry at Joe blogs on the street about a one off event that happened in a different country

The “average guy” needs to not rape women, not engage in acts that denigrate women, challenge attitudes that lessen women. All of the men involved in this were “average guys”, members of the community that thought nothing of seeking sex online at a moments notice, asked no questions when presented with an unconscious woman, had sex with her at her husbands say so. Said the fact that he gave consent was enough.

It’s a whole attitude towards women that treats us as objects to be used and abused for pleasure. The “average guy” could start by recognising the very problematic mind set within the male community instead of throwing his hands up and asking “what am I supposed to do”.

It was covered on the BBC, it was headline news, they spoke about the issues in French society and the attitudes towards women.

I actually don’t think it’s helpful to approach this issue through the simplistic ‘it could be any man’ narrative. The fact is that the vast majority of men have not and would not engage in crimes of this nature.

A very high proportion of these horrible men either had previous convictions and/or had suffered sexual abuse in childhood.

What needs to happen is a serious focus on early intervention, rehabilitation and support for children growing up in dysfunctional or abusive families. However, that is more complex and more expensive than just screaming about all men.

This kind of rhetoric also drives young men into the hands of the far right as we have seen in the US and Europe, which is going to end up in an even more divided society.