The 50 rapists who could be any man

[Shouldnellly]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/19/who-are-the-men-convicted-over-rape-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot-

sickening to read of the normality of these men. From a tiny region. Everywhere

@Fireworknight
Sorry I didn't make my point well. I meant to say that surely then there is always intent to rape.
No man accidentally has sex. His intention to have sex would always be present. Obviously if it is performed through violence or coercion or threat there is intention to take. But also if it was an act of 'surprise' presuming this means sex not expected or consented by the victim.
So what on earth do they jean by intent?

Yes, and society's message is 'of course it's important to them, how dare you judge.... etc'. The idea of judging someone's behaviour, even if it directly or indirectly harms others is now seen as 'moralising'.

I have to agree that most of these men were far from normal. Many were victims of abuse themselves. Many had alcohol and drug problems. I bothered to read that whole article and it probably took me about half an hour. If they are a ‘normal’ section of men from France then France is absolutely fucked.

Not just France. I don't imagine this kind of fucked uppery is restricted to France!

I have to agree that most of these men were far from normal. Many were victims of abuse themselves. Many had alcohol and drug problems. I bothered to read that whole article and it probably took me about half an hour. If they are a ‘normal’ section of men from France then France is absolutely fucked.

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast
these defences have been covered a number of times during this conversation. To summarise

• many of the men likely lied about being abused as some form of defence

• even if they were abused this is no form of excuse. How many females are abused (hint way more than men) and how many of them commit horrendous sex crimes because of it?

• alcohol and drug problems - again a large proportion of people (mostly men) have these issues and they provide absolutely no reason to rape a unconscious woman

• the men were a ‘normal’ cross section of society. From a nurse to a greengrocer to a carer. Almost all had families and jobs.

• you’re just trying to make yourself feel better with these excuses

I’m trying to make myself feel better? Well I failed if that was my intention

You have no evidence for your assertion that many of the men made up being abused. It is well-established that many perpetrators of sexual violence have been abused themselves.

Yet again you prefer to use inaccurate and unhelpful generalisations about a group that makes up half of society rather than looking at the serious issues that contributed to this awful crime.

I actually don't care whether any of these men were abused or not.
Its a distraction thats all

Yet again you prefer to use inaccurate and unhelpful generalisations about a group that makes up half of society rather than looking at the serious issues that contributed to this awful crime.

nothing like a rape apologist eh @TreeSquirrel

Rapists are half of society now? We're talking about convicted rapists, and you're worried about people stereotyping them? Good grief.

BuT THeY wErE ABusEd yOU NAstY wIMmEnZ!

The point is that these men were average guys, 80 in a small area, who seemed normal, mainly, until their evil was revealed. This was partly due to porn websites facilitating rape. Clearly these sites were fairly popular in a small area. V disturbing. The point is not : What can Joe Bloggs do? But : Why were so many otherwise Joe Bloggs types in a smalll area happy to rape her?

It is important to look at motivatory factors, but obvs abuse is no excuse to abuse.

Spot on. It's hardly a one- off if it happens 80 times, either.

Fair enough if you’d rather spout platitudes than look at the factors that drive sexual violence. As I said, it’s much easier to shout nonsense slogans but much harder to actually try to prevent these awful crimes happening.

I've looked at the main 3rd of men study & it didn't seem v reliable for several reasons. I don't doubt that the number's higher than we want to think, though.

I don't think it is important at all.
Their "motivatory factors" were that they were sexually incontinent scum who view women as a series of holes for their pleasure.
We don't need to try and understand men like that , we just need to lock them up forever.

I do think attitudes to misogyny, abuse & paedophilia are worse in France. There are def serious issues here, but the Cultural difference should be remembered.

It makes you wonder how many other women could have been attacked using this horrible site?

So you have no interest in trying to prevent these crimes?

No we do need to understand. No one is born a rapist. It has to be learnt to be so evil. Likewise murder etc. Def these should be locked up for as long as possible, no disagreement on that.

We can't prevent them sadly.
In any case, its the men who rape who need to prevent rape by not raping.
That would be a lot more effective than wondering why

Can't psycologists etc help us learn how to prevent or at least minimise evil when people are growing up tho? I have low opinions as to rapists changing...but we have to make sure the next generation isn't poisoned by misogyny.
Banning porn for under 18s would be a good start.
Otherwise we accept some are born rapists, it murderers, or other types of criminal, & can't be changed...surely not?
I def agree only these men could stop what happened. Bit we need to stop more boys one day becoming like them.

On the plus side, the reason we know most of the crimes are committed by men and are recognising their depravity is because the crimes are being reported and they are being caught. This may have happened before and the victim not gone public. I very much doubt this is the only time a man has ever or will ever do this.

We understand about cause and effect more than we ever have, people are accessing help for childhood issues far more than ever, sexual abuse on children is reported and believed now when it wasn't previously
Rape is not decreasing so no, I don't believe that understanding why rape happens will help prevent it.
So as I said before, I don't care how many rapists were sexually abused as children

There's a doc on 5 (of course) and l feel disgusted they get to hide their faces while she has to face everyone, each day. Utter cowards. She's got more balls than them.