Page 13 | DD has been stuck on the M5 for 6 hours

GinForBreakfast · 2024-12-18T22:05:24+00:00

I know there's been a serious incident but you can't leave people stuck on a motorway for 6 hours. That will include elderly people and tiny children. In other countries they manage to clear the roads far quicker. No sign of anything moving and even once she does she's still 4 hours from home.

LoafofSellotape · 19/12/2024 00:11

BewaretheIckabog · 18/12/2024 22:51

When I used to drive for work this was a reasonably regular occurrence - maybe every few months.

I do find it odd that a mother of a young woman is stressed about her DD being stuck in traffic on a mild night in the UK.

So do I. We were stuck when ds was about 8 months, 9 hours. Wasn't fun but can't remember being particularly worried.

Spectre8 · 19/12/2024 00:12

samarrange · 18/12/2024 23:54

When I read that a motorway has been closed for several hours I do sometimes wonder exactly what they are doing, but I tend to assume that these people know their job, until I get evidence to the contrary. The alternative seems to become one of those people in the pub for whom everyone else is incompetent and who has the answer to everything (usually "a good kick up the backside") but has never actually had to make anything work.

We occasionally have to accept that convenience and safety are going to be somewhat in conflict with each other. In the 1970s there were several horrific motorway pile-ups that started as minor collisions in poor visibility. Then after a serious of other transport-related disasters (Herald of Free Enterprise, Marchioness, Clapham Junction, etc) we got the health and safety culture of today.

The problem is that when that culture gets in your way it's "elf 'n' safety gorn mad", but when it saves your life, you don't know about it. This is something called the "prevention paradox". We are seeing this now in the form of Covid revisionism: "The lockdowns weren't necessary, I never caught it". When taken to extremes this leads to "Why do we need the polio vaccine? Nobody ever gets polio!", which seems to be the actual position of several people in the incoming US administration. 🤦‍♂️

Anyone who has been on holiday abroad will have noticed that other countries, even rich ones, do not seem to have quite the same attention to H&S as the UK. So perhaps the French do spend less time gathering evidence after a crash, and can open the motorway sooner. But these are choices you make as a society.

Perhaps today's crash was caused by reckless driving. Would we want that prosecuted? How would we feel if someone had died, and then we read in a few months that the driver got off with just a fine for an out-of-date MOT because the police had not had time to collect the relevant evidence from the scene?

Here's something I learned recently: If there's a crash in the dark, the police can tell whether you were driving without lights, because the filament in the bulb is cold and brittle and will break from the impact. Whereas if your lights were on, the filament is hot and springy, and will not break. So a conviction could turn on the police being able to find a headlight bulb in the dark on a wet and windy evening on the motorway.

So yeah, sometimes things go wrong, and you need a plan B. But at least OP's daughter is only in one of the cars in the queue, and not having to be cut out of one at the head of it.

I'd also add that if that was OPs daughter in an accident, she would be on here complaining about lack of evidence and any sentences werent rough because they opened the roads quickly etc.

Topsyturvy78 · 19/12/2024 00:13

Either there's been a fatality or they are trying to get someone out. They have to have forensics so they can see what happened. Talk to witnesses etc. If you've ever seen body parts across a road and all the blood after a car accident (I have). You wouldn't be moaning about traffic being held up. Be greatful it's not your DD and her passengers that were in that crash.

Mountainhowl · 19/12/2024 00:14

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 19/12/2024 00:09

The "hard shoulder" emergency lane is so that if someone with diabetes runs out of sugar tablets or dehydration triggers an epileptic seizure or a pregnant woman goes into labour during an event like this, an ambulance can drive down the hard shoulder past the standing traffic, get that person from their car, and drive them to appropriate medical attention.

It's not a motorcycle lane for some kind of bastard offspring of Deliveroo and the Cold War Civil Defence units to ferry sandwiches.

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That's why I said motorbike, they can filter, no need for the hard shoulder, I can imagine the local biker community pulling together to give out water bottles but as a previous poster pointed out it would be one hell of a logistical nightmare with so many cars. You'd need a way of knowing which cars had the highest needs but that's impossible

But your post does point out that no one really need to be worried about medical emergencies if caught in a traffic jam on a motorway, as that's what the hard shoulder is for (unless it's a smart motorway and the lane was in use to start with I suppose)

Sunshineandoranges · 19/12/2024 00:14

This is an interesting thread. I didn’t realise that other countries manage this better. The idea of abandoning your car doesn’t make sense as surely that would make jams worse. I hope your poor daughter is home asap.

miniaturepixieonacid · 19/12/2024 00:20

2024onwardsandup · 18/12/2024 22:54

well - on the other hand your daughter hasn’t been killed or hideously injured which is very probably what’s happened.

she must be reasonably close to the accident - if she’d left maybe ten minutes earlier she might be dead now.

of course they don’t clear major accident traffic’s quicker in other countries.

of course it’s a pain for your daughter - but being outraged about it is pretty grim

If they don't clear the accidents quicker in continental Europe then it's a common myth that they do. I went on a coach holiday with my mum a few years ago and the coach driver did commentary (yes, it was painful!) Not much to say when you're on endless motorway but I do remember him saying that accident protocol is to take loads of photos and then clear everything straight away. No waiting around for evidence etc. He said accidents rarely cause hold ups the length of the ones in the UK. Whether he was misinformed, idk, but he definitely beleived it.

But yes, when I'm stuck, I always focus on the fact that I'm not in the accident and that I easily could have been. It helps a lot.

I hope your daughter is on her way by now.

samarrange · 19/12/2024 00:20

Spectre8 · 19/12/2024 00:12

I'd also add that if that was OPs daughter in an accident, she would be on here complaining about lack of evidence and any sentences werent rough because they opened the roads quickly etc.

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Well, perhaps not OP individually. But for almost any problem in society, there are people saying we should do more about it and others saying we already spend far too much on that and people should just get on with it and stop moaning. So we are certainly collectively inconsistent, if not individually. (We all know a few people who are massively inconsistent individually, though!)

This is actually most of what elections are fought about. People (warning, massive oversimplification ahead) get tired of the "nanny state" and vote for the dynamic free enterprise opportunities of the Tories. Then they find they can't get a GP appointment and decide they don't want the dynamic free enterprise of fully private medicine, so they vote Labour. The pendulum often necessarily swing like that individually, but it does collectively to some extent.

Topsyturvy78 · 19/12/2024 00:22

Harassedmum123 · 18/12/2024 22:07

God that is absolutely horrendous, your poor DD. Totally agree in that we seem to be the only country in Europe that does this. It’s inhumane to just leave people stranded for that length of time with potentially no food or water and like you say, possibly elderly and children too. I wonder why they can’t even open one lane.

Maybe something to do with the emergency service's don't want members of the public see what they see. I saw the aftermath of a crash once. Wasn't driving was a pedestrian. Drunk driver had hit 3 pedestrians. Even now over 4 years on I think of that mum what she's lost.

Delphiniumandlupins · 19/12/2024 00:25

I haven't driven around Europe enough recently to accurately compare but always get the impression UK motorways have heavier traffic. So accidents here are more likely to cause long tailbacks perhaps?

TheUsualChaos · 19/12/2024 00:25

Unfortunately they will be treating the scene the same as they would a fatality because presumably her injuries are such that it's possible they will be fatal. The whole situation is horrific and demonstrates the sheer lack of resources to deal with both mental health issues and major incidents. How this can go on for so many hours and supplies and welfares checks haven't been carried out along the traffic jam is a pretty sad state of affairs. Peoples phone battery will be running out by now and won't be able to call for help.

MrsMoastyToasty · 19/12/2024 00:26

It's not always practical to divert traffic. If an accident happens at certain points in the vicinity of the Avonmouth Bridge on the M5 then traffic has to be diverted into Bristol. The next crossing upriver is the Clifton Suspension Bridge, which is not suitable for large vehicles like buses and lorries.

LittleBalletBum · 19/12/2024 00:27

LOLLLLL at “France seem to clear motorways quicker”

after having lived in France I can guarantee you this is not the case. In fact, every single task that seems to involve a public service takes double the time there IME.

whenever I get a bit upset about traffic/accidents etc I always tell myself an inconvenience for me vs someone else potentially going through the worst day of their life (ie the people in the accident and their families) … I’m not complaining

CassandraWebb · 19/12/2024 00:27

Mountainhowl · 19/12/2024 00:14

That's why I said motorbike, they can filter, no need for the hard shoulder, I can imagine the local biker community pulling together to give out water bottles but as a previous poster pointed out it would be one hell of a logistical nightmare with so many cars. You'd need a way of knowing which cars had the highest needs but that's impossible

But your post does point out that no one really need to be worried about medical emergencies if caught in a traffic jam on a motorway, as that's what the hard shoulder is for (unless it's a smart motorway and the lane was in use to start with I suppose)

Show quote history

The fact medical help might be able to reach you doesn't mean you "don't need to worry about it".

Firstly that's a car that has to be abandoned and therefore an added complication to reopening the motorway

But secondly and more importantly, medical help arriving is not a panacea. Many conditions once escalating are dangerous, even if help is able to reach you.

The idea that "it's fine because an ambulance could reach you" is as dangerously and insultingly ignorant and oversimplistic as the first headteacher at my son's school - who thought she didn't need robust allergy processes "because he has an EpiPen"

user1492757084 · 19/12/2024 00:28

How horrendous for your DD and all the other road users.
If I were her I would try to snuggle up in a warm blanket and snooze until able to drive again. Also use two open doors and the blanket to construct a private place if she really needs to pee on the roadside.
Once the road is passable she will have to assess her ability to drive safely; advise her to stop and sleep somewhere safely and arrive a day later.

WarmingClothesontheRadiator · 19/12/2024 00:29

They close roads for normally about 4 hours after an accident when someone dies, or might die, in order to gather evidence in case they go to court to prosecute someone for that death. It is not about ‘clearing the road’.

neilyoungismyhero · 19/12/2024 00:29

Guest100 · 18/12/2024 22:09

I would have abandoned my car. Can you pick her up?

You can't abandon your car on a motorway! Where do you think she is going to go?
Although I agree they take far too long to investigate these accidents but at least she will be going home eventually someone else clearly won't.

RadioWhatsNew · 19/12/2024 00:29

The road that my friend and young daughter were recently killed on was closed for 16 hours and I've got no doubt that people were inconvenienced and put out by the closure and being held up in it, but I can guarantee if you are ever in the unfortunate position that it's your friend or relative involved in that accident you'll be forever grateful to the emergency services for the time they spent while it was closed to ensure you have answers and potentially justice whilst doing the following:

Passersby stopping to help at the crash and trying to provide first aid
Time for emergency services to arrive
Unfortunately my friends young child was killed on impact but they tried to stabilise my friend whilst the fire service worked to free her from the vehicle and then a suitable place found for the air ambulance to land and for the ambulance to transfer her to the air ambulance to get her to the trauma centre in the next city.

The fire service then had to make safe the scene whilst police investigators arrived to begin their meticulous assessment and preservation of the accident and the scene.

Then when the police were done the undertaker then had to be called to remove my friends child and the police then continued with further photography and investigation and finally recovery of the vehicle and clear up of the scene which isn't always simple or easy.

From working in this field I can tell you also that first priority is preservation of life and then scene. Resources will be found as soon as possible to free traffic by turning them around but this isn't easy, a diversion needs to be set up and traffic turned safely in a way there's no conflict with other traffic. If someone calls 101 or 999 and reports they have a baby or a medical need or something else then the police or other services will do a welfare check and provide aid.

Before you make posts like this, stop and think for a moment and put yourselves in the shoes of the families, friends, victims and emergency services shoes and have some compassion

Original poster

GinForBreakfast · 19/12/2024 00:29

Eight hours now and no sign of anything moving.

OP posts:

user1473878824 · 19/12/2024 00:39

Well she’s presumably fit and healthy and in a warm car still and not elderly, disabled or pregnant. Or in hospital with major injuries having fallen from a bridge so maybe count your blessings a bit more and stop behaving as if this is some sort of huge injustice.

ChaosHol1 · 19/12/2024 00:40

GinForBreakfast · 19/12/2024 00:29

Eight hours now and no sign of anything moving.

Police have just posted the south bound carriageway has now reopened but itl take some time to get everyone moving.

ChaosHol1 · 19/12/2024 00:41

user1473878824 · 19/12/2024 00:39

Well she’s presumably fit and healthy and in a warm car still and not elderly, disabled or pregnant. Or in hospital with major injuries having fallen from a bridge so maybe count your blessings a bit more and stop behaving as if this is some sort of huge injustice.

A warm car? Do you not realise you cant sit with your car running for eight hours to keep it warm or itl run out of fuel or battery. People can feel sorry for the girl and their own family members who are cold, hungry, thirsty, tired and likely need the toilet.

Original poster

GinForBreakfast · 19/12/2024 00:42

user1473878824 · 19/12/2024 00:39

Well she’s presumably fit and healthy and in a warm car still and not elderly, disabled or pregnant. Or in hospital with major injuries having fallen from a bridge so maybe count your blessings a bit more and stop behaving as if this is some sort of huge injustice.

I started a thread on mumsnet, i didn't go on hunger strike or occupy a government building.

OP posts:

RegimentalSturgeon · 19/12/2024 00:48

You’ve been ambushed by the “considerably more empathetic than yow” tendency, OP. They show no mercy.

Waitinggame42023 · 19/12/2024 00:48

Fintoo · 18/12/2024 22:27

When something like this happens they must know that it’s going to be hours before they can open the motorway, so why don’t they close the earlier junction and turn people around? What’s the reason for waiting several hours before doing that? Presumably there is a reason?

I agree, why let cars carry on in to the block for so long? My now husband and I once got stuck on the M1 Northbound after a lorry containing fireworks overturned and melted the surface of the road. It was the hottest day of the year and people were trapped melting in the heat, we were in an un-airconned van containing all our worldly goods moving 5 and a half hours up north.
Luckily we were trapped right at turnoff where one of our friends lived, so we cut our losses and turned off.
Unfortunately the friend was in the process of a dumping by his long term gf as my husband rang him, so we ended up sleeping in the back of the van. Took them all night to resurface the road!
I just remember lots of families with children desperately struggling in the heat, it was awful.

LadyWiddiothethird · 19/12/2024 00:48

@GinForBreakfast Not once have you expressed any compassion for the family involved in this incident! Your daughter will finish her journey in one piece,wonder if she is as selfish and self centred as her Mother.