Being taken to court for child access by FIL

[LivelyFish]

Hiya, I’m looking for some guidance from anyone who has knowledge or experience in going to court, even better if it’s by a grandparent’.

my father in law is taking myself and my partner to court for access to our children, the first court case date is 03/01/25 and it’s a joint permissions/directions case. I have no idea if that’s normal to have the two joint or not, but what can we expect from the first hearing? The oldest child is mine from a previous relationship and the youngest is related to him. The oldest child’s biological dad has been left off the application despite him being an active parent, I presume that this is something we can get fixed at the first hearing if it goes ahead?

my partner cut his dad off end of last year as he had spent his entire life being abused by that man and when his dad was incredibly rude and disrespectful toward me for the millionth time he lost his composure and told him he was cutting contact, and that seeing the kids would be done by me, in public but that if he did it again he’d be losing the kids too. I put up with him until the beginning of this year and then had enough and stopped contact too. We have spent this entire year working on our relationship because his dad caused us a lot of problems and we are finally in a good place.

the last time the kids saw him they were 2 and 4, by the time we have our first hearing it’ll be a month short of an entire year since we had seen him. He spent the previous year studying abroad and we didn’t have a close relationship with him because my partner didn’t like being around him and he was very toxic toward us, so the kids never had a good relationship with him.

he ignored many boundaries put in place, he put the kids health at risk, he emotionally manipulated my kids with the whole ‘oh if you don’t give me attention I’ll be sad’, would invade their personal space, was very emotionally abusive towards myself and my partner, he’s done some very questionable things (following into a private room to watch the baby get their nappy changed, we’ve found pictures of my partner at a similar age to the oldest completely naked and forward facing in the shower etc), he was emotionally incestious toward my partner and his brother growing up (my partner worse than his brother), has tried to put wedges in my relationship with my partner, threatened my partner by saying if he didn’t reply by X date then he’d turn up at my home and then on X date my car had its mirror kicked in and smashed (no proof it was him because my SD card was in the home overnight but very coincidental) just to name a few things.

the man is also applying for a name change and I presume it’s only for the youngest, he tried to convince my partner after birth to register them behind my back so the child had his surname, despite us already agreeing the child would take mine. He wants the child’s birth certificate, he wants the child to be taken to be registered under his nationalities and even tried to suggest getting the oldest registered under one of them through my relationship with my partner (not married). He’s completely delusional obviously but it’s still really worrying me that the court will give him access despite him being very obviously unstable just because he’s a grandparent.

we are hoping that with all of our reasons, the magistrates will tell him to walk back out the door, but we are concerned we’re opening a door for cafcass and social services and months/years of draining court visits. Our concerns can be seen as alarming and he’s also claimed abuse to him by cutting him off and arguing with him and potentially to the girls because we have mental health history (my partners mental health only suffers when his dad is degrading him daily, which hasn’t happened for well over a year, and mine was in my teenage years but I’m absolutely fine now).

his dad has used his application as a smear campaign against me, praying for our relationship to end so his son comes back to him, etc etc. we also have messages he sent to my partners mum saying that he will cancel the case if my partner gives him a real reason as to why contact stopped (despite being given loads by both of us), and then said ‘but he won’t because there is no reason except for the fact that OP doesn’t want him talking to me’ so he is in his own world about all of this. He also is under the impression that 1- my partner isn’t on the youngest child’s birth certificate and 2- that he will be seeing my child’s birth certificate during the case.

we don’t know what to expect, but he’s definitely got some issues that need addressing. So if anyone could help me make sense of this, give me some advice or pointers, lay out the process etc I’d be very grateful! And sorry if this makes absolutely no sense, I tried to fit in as many points as possible without actually giving away my identity incase this ever gets back to him!

thank you in advance x

You might do better odd getting this moves to legal advice subforum. If you report your post you can ask MN to move it through the report form. No personal experience, but there's been a couple threads in legal about this in the last year or two.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will come to reassure. But I am sure that grandparents only have rights considered if they’ve perhaps been sole carer for years eg if an alcoholic woman had a baby and gave it to her parents to raise while she went off drinking etc then returned 3 years later soher and took the child away they MIGHT get access agreed on the principal it’s best for the child and their continuity etc. But that is clearly not the case with your stupid FIL and I am almost certain he will get laughed out of court. What a bastard. The timing is no way coincidental either is it? Narcissistic fucker is trying to ruin your Xmas so sod him and enjoy yourselves and realise that he is confirming your decision if the right one to protect your children and well done to your husband for being a decent husband and father despite his experiences in his own childhood. Have a lovely Christmas and please don’t give that waste of oxygen any headspace.

He's applying to change the name of YOUR child? And for contact with your eldest who isn't even his GC?
In my lay opinion he hasn't got a hope, I can't believe he's even been allowed to progress an application. Try not to worry.

So your saying your FIL who isn’t actually your FIL he’s your partners Dad, is taking you to court to have access to your children, even though one of them is not related to to him?

Im assuming your in the UK.

Grandparents don’t have rights to access grandchildren in the UK unless there were extenuating circumstances like your unfit patents and the children are or have been fully cared for by the grandparents and SS are wanting to remove them from your care.

Please contact someone like Coram, Women’s Aid or best of all, Family Rights a group.

has the court granted him leave already?

my father in law is taking myself and my partner to court for access to our children, the first court case date is 03/01/25 and it’s a joint permissions/directions case. I have no idea if that’s normal to have the two joint or not, but what can we expect from the first hearing?

I believe what you can expect from the first and last hearing is, said in more polite terms, "Sir, you are a loon."

But type up and print out a long list of all your concerns as raised in your OP so you have it all on hand in case you feel flustered on the day. Try not to worry.

He doesn't have any right to see your own child. He doesn't have any right to see your joint child either because he's never had care of that child. As others have said if he had cared for the child e.g. while you were in prison or in hospital or whatever then it might be a bit different but all your partner has to do is outline his reasons and there isn't a court in the world who would let him have access to the children.

OP I’m pretty sure that won’t happen! No court in the land can enforce grandparents rights - it doesn’t exist. Don’t worry!

If you have a University teaching law near see if they offer free advice in clinics, I had family law advice many years ago through a Uni clinic (these may not be open over Xmas).
Number 1 rule, focus on: meeting the best needs for your DC.
Imagine this before everything you write and say and where possible use this, & no personal attacks.

If your 2nd child was born in the UK your partner couldn't have secretly registered the birth anyway if you aren't married. You could have registered it alone or he could have accompanied you to the registration.

The legislation is for the child's benefit and was meant for adults who spent a significant amount of time with a child, and then had contact cut. They can be related, but do not have to be. For example, a grandparent caring for a child five days a week 9 hours a day for a few years. Or a child living with a grandparent for a few years. Suddenly stopping contact in this kind of scenario, unless there are major issues, can be very harmful for the child.
It was never meant for grandparents who occasionally see their grandchildren.
I think simply saying the relationship has broken down between the adults, he has not seen the children for a year, was abroad, and did not have sole care (I think this is what you are implying) when he did see them.
I am not a lawyer. But I would be wary of mentioning your uneasy feeling about sexual abuse as the obvious court question would be why did you not report this to the police at the time.
I also would not mention the car issue as you have no evidence at all, and your feeling just muddies the water of a strong case.
All the issues like rudeness and a difficult relationship are proof that this is not just a blip in your relationship.
As I said I am not a lawyer, but from everything I have read on this issue I would have thought court ordered access is very unlikely.
If you felt like it, you could always offer a compromise that he was allowed to send birthday cards and presents. But if you think he would see that as money grabbing, then do not suggest it. I was simply thinking that you could say to the court this would be a way for the children to remember granddad and they could initiate contact if they wished when older.

Am I right he's from a male dominated culture?

I don’t think he has any chance but in your position and having to go to court I’d:
Be very calm. Speak clearly but calmly. Make sure you don’t swear ( tempting though it is) and don’t name call.
Be factual. Type out and print all your concerns. Don’t use terms like “ behaved incestuously” ( open to interpretation) your partner should describe exactly what his father did.
Write down your concerns for your children. The fact that they’ve not seen him for a year, how young they are, he’s a stranger to them.
Write down every example of his behaviour.

i hope it all works out ok.

Basically you need to come across as calm and sensible, and as putting your children first. So saying things for example like, I stopped seeing him with the children because he kept being rude to me in front of the children and it upset them - is calm, stating the issue, but putting the children first.

In the UK grandparents could only be granted access or custody if birth parents were deemed so neglectful and abusive that the children were unsafe in the home. SS would be heavily involved.
Presuming this isn't the case they haven't a leg to stand on. As far as I know in UK law they've no rights to access whatsoever. Let alone trying to change the name of a child. Who's not even related to them? Plus they're an abuser and have been evidently so for decades.
Even if parents were struggling badly it's unlikely someone with that kind of history would get a look in regardless.
So please don't worry too much about what they are demanding.
I'm no legal expert but they sound like they're simply trying to threaten and traumatised you and your family.
I'd even consider involving the police as it seems like harassment.

Please do not involve the police and claim harassment for him taking you to court. You will look slightly crazy, when you want to look reasonable and calm. Just go to court and explain the facts and how stopping contact was putting your children's needs first.

It is a joint permission and directions hearing because, by law, as not being the parent, your FIL has to seek the Court's permission to even apply for a Section 8 Order. So the Court will look at that then order any directions if they do allow permission to apply.

Definitely focus on how you have tried to promote contact in the past but how he behaved and why you stopped it. Plus also focus on him choosing to move abroad and ending direct contact for a year. Also comment on how detrimental it is to the older child to be treated differently to their sibling. Spend time writing down your points in a clear, non rambling way. Offer the court something eg that he could have indirect contact eg video calls once a fortnight only or letterbox contact only. This shows you are trying to be reasonable in the face of someone who is not.

Tell me about it. We crossed paths at the end of September when he picked up BIL from the same place we were, and that ignited his spark to apply for all of this! Mediation was applied for and completed by him days later before my oldest child’s birthday, and we were served two days after my birthday which is two weeks before my partners birthday, and now we’ve got our paperwork deadline days after the youngest child’s birthday, right before Christmas and the first hearing is straight after new year! Talk about being selfish. Thank you! He’s never even been allowed to have the kids on his own without a parent present let alone been an active figure in their upbringing!

Yeah, he’s applying to change the name! Paperwork officially says ‘changing their names or surnames’ but I’m pretty sure it’s only for the youngest given that the oldest isn’t his biological family and that my partner doesn’t have PR over them, however it’s still absolutely crazy that he’s attempting it!

I can’t believe he’s been allowed to get this into court either but here we are! Thank you

I’ll definitely look into this, thank you!

this is our first hearing so presumably he hasn’t been granted leave yet and he’ll either get a yes or no in the new year

Oh trust me I know that my partner wouldn’t have been able to register without me, however it didn’t stop FIL pushing him to do it! My partner never wanted to give our child his name as he’s always planned to drop it, so it’s just silly.

Hi! This happened to me. It was really stressful and I was so worried. First hearing was the permissions one and was for them to get permission to apply to the court which was agreed. I was told it generally is if they can establish a relationship.

Cafcass then spoke to me and my children separately (they were about 7 and 11) to establish what relationship they had had with grandparents. They had never been alone with them and had only had very sporadic contact over the years. My ex husband was obviously supportive of them having contact but as he was only allowed supervised contact and his parents didn't believe he had done anything wrong that became a factor in the hearing.

Ultimately as they had no relationship with grandparents and both said they didn't want to it was agreed that they could have letterbox contact once a month and extra at Christmas and birthdays. That was 5 years ago now and I think they have received maybe 3 birthday cards (in total, not apiece) since then.

They had a solicitor and I self represented but I did see a solicitor for advice (had a free half an hour).

I have no legal background but I cannot see that he will have any right to apply to see your eldest if both you and the biological father say no. With regards to your second, again if both parents say no I think that would make it a stronger case for you and if the child has had no relationship previously that would also go in your favour. I remember the solicitor saying to me that it would be a different situation if my children had seen them once a week all their life or they'd provided childcare etc. Cafcass also take on board a lot of what the child wants too in my experience.

If you want to discuss further please PM me. I remember how worried I was at the time but it turned out to be nothing in the end. So much so that I can't remember a lot of the detail of it now!

Good luck!

Thank you for the feedback. So I’ve not mentioned anything about sexual abuse as such but I have mentioned things like him following to watch baby get nappy changed, how forceful he was to get affection from the kids, how he threw the kids affection in my face during arguments and the fact I’m concerned about the forward facing pictures of my partner in the shower as would he do the same to my kids if given access. Do these things fall under your be cautious bracket or would you say they’re okay to keep in my statement?

the car thing is currently in my statement but I said something along the lines of my partner had a deadline, on the deadline my car was coincidentally vandalised, and since then I’ve felt uneasy in my own home incase he does good on his threats and shows up - do you suggest I scrap that entirely?

my partner and I have said letterbox contact to send gifts/cards/letters but no contact in person. I don’t really care if he sees that as money grabbing because honestly he always gifted unnecessary things that inconvenienced us without permission anyway so we would happily go without! But it’s all I’m willing to offer. Thank you!

South American, no idea how male dominated they are in comparison to other countries but I do know this man thinks he has the god given right to control his children, their partners and their children!

Also just to say- the courts were really happy when I said that I already saved any cards/gifts from the gps as it made me look reasonable. I think you saying you're happy for letterbox contact will definitely go for you in this.