Christmas with religiously and ethnically diverse with community

[mids2019]

So I work in a trust where possibly 20% of staff are Muslim and there are plenty of other religions represented too with some Christians .

This year with the traditional Christmas parties and general Christmas build up there have been conversations about our holiday period being centred around one religion to the detriment of others. There are no bank holidays associated with Eid or Diwali and people for instance.

I think in general people do get in the general communal Christmas spirit but for instance the traditional meal and drinks which is meant to be a celebratory time for staff has maybe maybe feel staff feel excluded with many junior staff members of non Christian faith feeling uncomfortable with going so simply didnt. There were a subgroup of staff that organise a large meal with the alcohol flowing but it really is becoming obvious that there needs to be a more inclusive event of the Christmas do is partly to show gratitude to hard working staff.

Do we need to reflect at Christmas not everyone celebrates it and with the continued Christ in the name it is still a relgous festival and as such people with strong faith in other religions may be a little reluctant to embrace the festoval?

Wow, the old being inclusive benefits everyone memo passed your bigoted head.

Because at Christmas I want to be wished Happy Christmas that's why. It's the same with the Cards that say Winter Wishes, what does that even mean. It's a load of nonsense.

That's how to celebrate diversity, share it, not refuse everything.

This. By making such a big deal about how nobody should be able to celebrate Christmas because you have imagined that some people might feel excluded excludes them even more, because you foster resentment against those people. Have a Christmas party. If someone wants a day off for Eid/Diwali etc then that's what annual leave is for. If they want to work at Christmas because its an ordinary day for them, I would imagine in the NHS, they'd be the most popular people in the office. However most of the Hindus and Muslims I know take the holiday and spend some time with their families who also have time off and thoroughly enjoy a Christmas party with their colleagues beforehand.

I've worked in all kinds of diverse places & all staff are happy to attend a Xmas party usually.

However "official" celebrations are alcohol-free and I think that's fair. I don't drink now but when I did I would not have been bothered by a couple of hours without alcohol.

It's not just religious people who don't want to be around booze. And I think colleagues who say others are miserable for not wanting to join in should take a look at their relationship with alcohol

Of course the more unofficial nights out are the usual pub/club kind of affair.

Exactly how does the alternative phrases diss your religion? Short answer they don't. Honestly children in primary can explain to you how making something wider doesn't mean you lose out

@mids2019 but surely it's only a problem if people are being excluded from celebrations? If they are to everyone then people have choice whether to celebrate or not.

I'm a governor at a school which has a very diverse population of students and staff. We've just attended church for a Christmas service. This has been a school tradition for decades. It's not a faith school.
Are you suggesting we should change how we celebrate Christmas as a school to be more inclusive?

And if alcohol is served, the abstainers can just say "no thank you" surely?

I worked with quite a few Muslims who celebrated Christmas with all the rest of us. At lunch, they didn't eat the pigs in blankets, but enjoyed quite a few alcoholic drinks

"Diss my religion"? How old are you.

I didn't say anything about disrespecting religion. But at Christmas I would expect people to say Happy Christmas or at Easter Happy Easter. If they don't want to say it that's fine but saying winter wishes is daft and meaningless.

If you were a non faith school yes! My children are in Educate together in Ireland we manage it very well. It s possible to be inclusive. You chose to reflect on the values and cultures without it being over taken by one!

This was the crap we heard when looking at multi denominational schools, yes it's inclusive but every assembly is a prayer service, the graduation is a massive🤣🤣🤷‍♀️ talk about lip service to inclusion.

Alcohol is not necessary for a Christmas celebration. If you want to include people, why not make your celebration alcohol free?

I live in a culturally very diverse part of the UK, work in the NHS, and am also a practising Christian. I also liked to celebrate Eid when I lived in a Muslim country.

Our work celebrations don't involve alcohol.

Tolerance is a good thing, but it can be pushed too far. I think this causes more negative feelings than just muddying in and getting along together.

I wouldn't dream od going to another country and demanding they change their culture, traditions, and official festivals to 'include' me.

Don't want to drink? Don't drink.

Don't want to be in a country that had liberal values, calls it's winter festival 'Christmas' or drinks... there is the door.

I genuinely believed that if alcohol was banned from work Christmas parties, there'd be an outcry and yet more hate directed at Muslims. It's not necessary. All the Muslims I've ever worked with (many) have happily attended Christmas parties where people are drinking.

Yes, well I'm yet to meet a Muslim calling for these things.

Who is demanding this though? No one.

*a historically Christian country

The vast majority of Brits don't care anymore.

But anyway. Christmas isn't really about religion, it's about tradition and it's just part of British culture historically. It would be like moving elsewhere and expecting other countries to have the same bank holidays and customs as us.

People can celebrate what they like ofc, but Christmas is our traditional national holiday. Ofc though people from other cultures shouldn't be made to feel bad for not participating.

And I agree that in ethnically diverse areas, it would be nice if other cultures were celebrated too. Most people wouldn't have anything against other staff having a party to represent their religion. These could be organised by staff networks (like the BAME network in NHS trusts). Tbh I'd love to go as I love trying other food and experiencing different cultures!

I do actually think it would be really fun to have a mixed celebration where everyone brings a piece of decoration and cooking to represent their favourite holiday :)

Why do the managers choose the Xmas party to do the 'messages of gratitude to staff' this i find is divisive in itself. Should be at another point in the year ( the usual summer party) or earlier in December and that same message should be conveyed to ALL staff via some form not just the select few who attend what you have yourself describes as alcohol fuelled piss up basically.

No thanks re xmas party like you've described. I've been to Xmas lunches where colleagues organising have been very aware of it not being in a alcohol centered environment ( pub) but a nicer restaurant ( others may drink) but emphasis on it being a nice lunch out with the team which is fine for me. I've avoided all Christmas parties for the same reason- it's all usually alcohol centered, which I'm not going to be comfortable with so won't attend, if its not like that but more of a sit down meal at larger corporate places I'll go.

Can't the managers put towards staff amazon vouchers/ team lunches instead and the party/ alcohol booze up be a casual meet up by staff later if they wish funding their own alcohol? Or put that money towards treats for all staff to go in the staff room. I think that's where the issues is , is miney being spent on alcohol for one demographic of staff to say thank you and the rest who don't drink get nothing? Hardly seems fair given they all work just as hard.

Also no I don't expect eid/ diwali BH to be a thing but some considerations like an acknowledgment of the key holidays of others main faiths would be nice. Work used to send around happy eid / diwali emails and I'd usually take treats in to mark the occasion.

Are you suggesting that all religious connotation is excluded from religious festivals in order to be inclusive?

I'm all up for calling it a "holiday party" I'm not Christian but DO celebrate Xmas as a secular event.

The no alcohol? Thanks but no thanks! I like my holiday season bubbly!

This isn't about being in a place of worship! It is about being in a place of work so it should and I believe @username299 legally is required to respect everyone.

I work in a state agency in Ireland we manage it for over twenty years as does my children's multi denominational schools.

A lot of workplaces here have been advised not to facilitate alcohol unless they are prepared to deal with court cases so it is becoming rarer. I understand UK is behind on this

We don't live in a secular country, we live in a Christian country and Christmas is a major cultural celebration.

There's absolutely no need to erase people's culture and faith in order to be inclusive. Unless of course you're erasing everyone's culture and faith. For example, you say "Happy Festival" to someone celebrating Eid or Hanukkah.

I love in Ireland, we are not exclusively Christian neither is UK and the attitude of othering is not acceptable anymore.

Your comment is sadly absolutely typical, not understanding that inclusiveness is including and respecting of your belief and is of mine also.

This is a workplace query work isn't a place of worship so everyone's beliefs and those with none have to be treated equally.

I think it's correct that the alcohol is a deterrent more than the idea of celebrating 'Christmas' as such. I am sure your colleagues understand that a party being referred to as a work Christmas party does not imbue with it any religious significance. It's very different than Eid for example where the religious element is front and centre.

To be honest, people might feel excluded from alcohol-centred occasions for many reasons other than religion. Others might enjoy a drink but prefer not to be in a boozy environment with workmates. I think this applies to more people than we realise! It has historically been quite taboo to express this.

Providing options where alcohol is not the focus is a good way to approach the inclusivity issue I think.

The official faith of the UK is Christian as is our culture. Yes people of other faiths live here but the predominant faith is Christian and we celebrate Christian festivals for example Easter and Christmas.

You seem very eager to trample over people's cultural traditions in order to be 'inclusive'. You also haven't answered my question twice: Are you as eager to erase everyone's faith and traditions or is it only Christians?

As you say, the workplace isn't a place of worship so I assume that applies to everyone.

This is exactly what a few posters have said would happen, Muslims or any other religion but let's be honest it's aimed at Muslims isn't it? get the blame as if it's Muslims demanding this bullshit when it's not at all, it's normally white people (I'm white btw) thinking they need to step in and be the hero but all it does is bring out the "how dare the Muslims come over here and try and cancel our Christmas" people. I'm also an atheist so i don't really give a shit about the religious aspect of Christmas but it makes me cringe when these posts pop up because fucking hell lol Muslims aren't trying to change anything but somehow it's all "well if you don't like it then there's the door back to your own country" it just makes people sound incredibly thick