Christmas with religiously and ethnically diverse with community

[mids2019]

So I work in a trust where possibly 20% of staff are Muslim and there are plenty of other religions represented too with some Christians .

This year with the traditional Christmas parties and general Christmas build up there have been conversations about our holiday period being centred around one religion to the detriment of others. There are no bank holidays associated with Eid or Diwali and people for instance.

I think in general people do get in the general communal Christmas spirit but for instance the traditional meal and drinks which is meant to be a celebratory time for staff has maybe maybe feel staff feel excluded with many junior staff members of non Christian faith feeling uncomfortable with going so simply didnt. There were a subgroup of staff that organise a large meal with the alcohol flowing but it really is becoming obvious that there needs to be a more inclusive event of the Christmas do is partly to show gratitude to hard working staff.

Do we need to reflect at Christmas not everyone celebrates it and with the continued Christ in the name it is still a relgous festival and as such people with strong faith in other religions may be a little reluctant to embrace the festoval?

Why are comparing food choices over strict religious beliefs. They may not be permitted to be in the company of those partaking in alcohol. It isn't a choice it's a strict requirement of their belief system.

I would be disappointed if an employer didn't ensure events were accessible for all

People can go drink to their hearts content after work social.

But it is not just food choices. They could be vegan or vegetarian due to ethical concerns, obviously.

And ?

And that is it. I have nothing else to say.

In reality the trust does not endorse Christmas parties and it is up to individual teams to make their own non official decisions about celebrations. For an employer who spends quite a lot on exclusivity awareness I think it is reasonable that they take a hands off approach from Christmas.

A lot of Muslims (a large minority in our area) do quietly avoid the out of work celebrations and it becomes jarringly obvious when you see the photographs with a pretty much white group of people having fun with champagne glasses raised hugging etc. You obviously won't stop this and people do need an opportunity to let their hair down and bond but the politics aren't great as I have said before.

Of course people suggest bowling, escape rooms etc. as an end of year thing but these ideas are quickly rejected so you are left with the boozy works night out. what can you do?

Bollocks. I'm white atheist, don't drink alcohol and still somehow managed to show face at my work christmas do. It's just a party FFS.

Just how boozey are your Christmas nights out?? Our work Christmas do photos include many Muslims enjoying themselves. We usually go out for a slap up meal. Plenty of people drink and plenty of people don't drink. The people who don't drink are the Muslims but also others who just don't want to drink.
I'd say our work dinners are merry. A few people might get a bit tipsy but most people don't appear drunk. There's no raucous, drunken behaviour.
If your work parties include people getting very drunk I can see how that's off-putting, not only to Muslims, but to others as well.

For an employer who spends quite a lot on exclusivity awareness I think it is reasonable that they take a hands off approach from Christmas.

I would say it's more for financial reasons rather than inclusion. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Is the exclusivity a slip and you mean inclusivity? Or do you think your employer is purposely excluding people?

I think you are missing the key difference. Their belief system means they may not be permitted to be at a social event with alcohol. They aren't choosing it it's a part of their core beliefs

Who isn't permitted to attend an event with alcohol? My largely Muslim team at work all attend events with alcohol. They tend to not go to pubs (although some have for a team event) but they happily attend meals and parties with alcohol. They just don't drink.

Christmas is cultural as much as it is religious.

I'd like to see mumsnetters stop using anecdotal evidence of 'my friend, my colleague, the guy down the road' to try to understand all Muslims. A hadith states "Whoever believes in God and the Last Day should not sit at a table where [alcoholic] drinks are served even if he does not drink with them as this is tantamount to a tacit approval." So Maryam from HR excuses herself for this reason but Ahmad in finance is happy to go and just not drink himself. Ibrahim from sales grew up in an ex Soviet Muslim country where religious observance was discouraged and everybody drank, and Farida from IT doesn't give two straws about religion. Which of these can tell you definitively what Muslims do or don't do? Can you imagine a conversation between Muslims about their Christian colleagues based on a handful of people, when Christians are as varied as variety itself?!

was explained to me by one Mulim colleague that no one seemed to know when Eid was generally and there was reluctance for mangers to release significant numbers of staff for holiday during this period which ranckled.
Some groups of people including mangers organised traditional Chriatimas boozy meals and didn't really give thought why those attending were mainly white,Christoan or at least from a Christian culture. The optics weren't great.
Muslims account for 6% of the population. It's hardly going to cause a major disaster if less than 6% of a workforce in the NHS take annual leave for a day. It's not really up to managers to plan leave around every single religious festival, expect when it's different every year. It's up to the individual to book annual leave when they know when they will need it. Many workforces add bank holidays onto annual leave for this reason- so people can, if they choose, use their annual leave to celebrate their own religious festivals.
46% ofvthe population is atheist. I suspect Christianity in this country is not a majority White, British religion. Churches are being propped up by huge amounts of Black African and Caribbean Church of England and ither Protestant followers as well as Asian, South American , Polish, and other Eastern European Catholics. The people turning up to booze at Christmas parties are less likely to be doing so because they are Christian and more because they like a party and a drink. You seem to have had a particularly aggressive Muslim population in your workplace than anyone else on this thread, many of whom have pointed out that Muslims generally don't want to ' cancel Christmas ' or force people not to have sausage rolls at their buffet or whatever.

Yes I wonder how many people would willingly spend their evening sitting around listening to a speech? You also want people to attend. People aren't forced to, their work colleagues are just that. They spend all day with them. It would be worse if you put on an event where only a few people turned up.

Best comment. I am not Muslim but as a British Indian I get very tired of people assuming all brown people are a monolith.

I think, once again, this entire thread is a wonderful example of the miscommunications that happen when you assume what other people feel or think without asking them and when you lump people together as homogenous groups rather than individuals.

Thank you to @ForPeaceSake for illustrating it so well. If the fictional people were real, I hope that they would just be invited and then they could decide what to do for themselves. I sincerely hope the management would not lump them together in a group then have an endless discussion with another, completely unrelated group of people, all with different but largely uninformed views, what the best thing was to do.

And that's one person of that faith. I work with a team predominantly Muslim women and none will due their beliefs 🤷‍♀️

It's not one person. We have many Muslims in our team and they've never turned down an event with alcohol. I've probably worked with about 50 Muslims over the years and also have Muslim friends. They all go to events with alcohol but don't drink. Most Muslims I know, don't enjoy pubs, but some go occasionally for lunches etc. I realise that some Muslims will avoid events with alcohol. It's just that I've never met one, so I assumed it was a small minority.

course people suggest bowling, escape rooms etc. as an end of year thing but these ideas are quickly rejected so you are left with the boozy works night out. what can you do?
I've just forked out £60 for bowling for 4 people before food/ drinks. Escape rooms similar. I suspect that is why people don't want to go.

I must have missed the part where the OP said her team were Afghans. That's the only way this comment could make remote sense.

I’d be careful of assuming they are all ‘happy’ to attend. Some will be and some will be having varying levels of discomfort. They will just be keeping it hidden so as not to offend.

So bloody what? We all have to keep things hidden so not to offend it’s called being in polite society.

This may be true in some teams but I don't feel like it is in mine. There's never any pressure or expectation to attend the social events. Loads of people didn't show up (not Muslims but other team team members. All my Muslim colleagues attended). Some of the Muslim colleagues live two or three hours away, but they still chose to come. It would have been absolutely fine if they'd made an excuse, like many others did. I really think they enjoyed it. There was lots of fun and laughter. No one gets stupidly drunk in my team. We're all pretty sensible.

Lovely.