Christmas with religiously and ethnically diverse with community

[mids2019]

So I work in a trust where possibly 20% of staff are Muslim and there are plenty of other religions represented too with some Christians .

This year with the traditional Christmas parties and general Christmas build up there have been conversations about our holiday period being centred around one religion to the detriment of others. There are no bank holidays associated with Eid or Diwali and people for instance.

I think in general people do get in the general communal Christmas spirit but for instance the traditional meal and drinks which is meant to be a celebratory time for staff has maybe maybe feel staff feel excluded with many junior staff members of non Christian faith feeling uncomfortable with going so simply didnt. There were a subgroup of staff that organise a large meal with the alcohol flowing but it really is becoming obvious that there needs to be a more inclusive event of the Christmas do is partly to show gratitude to hard working staff.

Do we need to reflect at Christmas not everyone celebrates it and with the continued Christ in the name it is still a relgous festival and as such people with strong faith in other religions may be a little reluctant to embrace the festoval?

Have a party and whoever wants to come can come. Don't try to make it suit everyone and then put the expectation on them that they should come. IME the people who do not want to sit around alcohol aren't that keen on attending a christmas event, regardless to how inclusive it is. Some people don't want to attend anything non work related. Also make it during lunch time, or after work. I hate the events that are during working hours and if you don't want to attend it's very hard to get out of as it's still 'work'.

This ^ 💯

@x2boys. Is that all you took from my post?She's assuming people are taking offence or aspects of christmas parties may cause offence instead of asking work colleagues what they actually think.

Wind up I think.

I work at a university which is as diverse an organisation as you can get. We manage to celebrate Christmas without any issues. This involves a complete shut down at Christmas (we don't do that for any other festival) a the Vice Chancellor hosts an after work drinks event...which has always involved wine.

This sounds like the OP is trying to make an issue out of a non-event.

Why? This seems like such a strange thing to get worked up over

46% not 80%

The rules in your NHS organisation @mids2019 seem very different from mine.

We are not allowed to fund any kind of party / event / celebration that is paid for by NHS funds. We are allowed one hour extra for lunch on one day so that staff can have a Christmas lunch , but it’s paid for by the staff themselves and there is no alcohol consumed by anyone.

I also don’t recognised this picture you a paint of manager buying staff alcohol to thank them. The NHS don’t pay for any of this - I’m amazed this is allowed where you work, I’d love to know what budget heading this comes under.

Of course some staff will arrange to go out in the evenings after work / at weekend / in their own time and use their own money to celebrate events of holidays. That’s nothing to do with an official work event and it’s not the business of any employer to tell staff what they can do with their own time and money.

Some staff go and some don’t . It’s not always about religion - some Christians don’t drink alcohol at all and some Muslims do. People of all faiths vary in how observant or otherwise they are.

Some don’t drink for personal or health reasons . Some don’t go because they have caring responsibilities .

In some departments staff do a secret Santa gift exchange - again thats with their own time and money and no one has to participate.

I think it’s unfortunate that you are trying to create some sort of division based on a stereotype of ethnicity / religion / culture which isn’t appropriate in the NHS.

OP, I haven't read the full thread, but your point and some of the responses highlight a problem that doesn't stem from Muslims or other people of diverse religions, yet the backlash gets felt by them as though they are trying to dictate how Christmas is celebrated, or cancel it.

It's not a big issue at my workplace, but some friends are in an environment where they just want to quietly decline the party because of alcohol and because they don't celebrate Christmas. But they get pressured to the extent where they feel cornered into explaining why they don't want to attend. This then sparks two types of reaction: 1, the person gets offended saying 'you can't dictate, you're being extreme, this is how we do it, you're in a Christian country, etc.' or 2, the person bends over backwards to try to make the event more inclusive thus pissing off others who have the first viewpoint. Neither scenario is the fault of the Muslim (or other) who just wants to respectfully decline and let others get on with it.

No one should be forced to attend a work celebration/social event or justify their reasons. It's nice that you are aware and want to try to do something inclusive. Maybe you could organise additional events at other times of the year?

What the fuck? Why was my last comment deleted?

It's no coincidence that Christmas is at the darkest time of year in the northern hemisphere. We needed something to look forward to, especially in days before electric lighting and central heating. (It's likewise no coincidence that Lent is at a time of least availability of food in the northern hemisphere.) Humans need something. The early Christian Church was good at co-opting existing festivals.

I don't see tas an issue. It was my Sikh and Muslim colleagues who were most likely to hand out Christmas cards in the office. Some of the Muslims were about as Muslim as I am Christian- they know when the main festivals are, and celebrate Eid, but they're not that devout otherwise- and dome have Christmas trees, because it's what many people in Britain do. We are a culturally Christian country - even Richard Dawkins claims a culturally Christian upbringing, in that we know when Christmas and Easter are because of the bank holidays.

At my previous employer (only a couple of weeks into this one, so not quite sure what happens here,) you could take days off for Eid or whatever was religiously significant for the faith you follow. And people brought in treats for Eid etc just like they do for Christmas. That's how to celebrate diversity, share it, not refuse everything.

I thought saying "happy holidays" was American.

I walk my dog on Christmas morning and everyone says Happy Christmas. I wouldn't want anyone saying Happy Holidsys to me.

And where did I say that? My very first post was that of course it’s ok to celebrate Christmas.

I have never, on MN or in RL, come across anybody of a non-Christian faith who wants to ban or dilute Christmas. It’s never the ‘brown people’ (as a PP puts it) who are offended by Christmas.

I'm also going to call 'made-up thread'.

I worked in a very culturally and religiously diverse environment for decades. Muslim kids like presents as much as any others, most were allowed to sing carols (in a school of 500 pupils of which 30% were Muslim, typically three or four wouldn't be allowed to carol sing).

As to works dos, the Muslim staff came along, had a ball and didn't drink.

Life is a lot more live and let live, and please bring your teacher gulab jamun and Indian sweeeeets at Eid!

We are a Christian country so of course we can celebrate Christmas. That and Easter are the most important religious celebrations on the calender

If businesses want to ‘thank’ their employees they can have a summer do.
I completely disagree we should be dropping the word Christmas!

I totally agree. These changes almost always blamed on Muslims when they have not even asked for any changes to be made. But it certainly feeds and fans the flames of the agenda of certain sides.

My comment was directed at the OP, not you.

Pretty sure there are no bank holidays for the Christian faith in Iraq. We are a Christian country who are more than happy for other religions to practise their faith but why the hell should we cancel our religion and celebrate theirs? Why do you think OP that their religion is more important than ours?

Why not?

I don't think it's a case of banning Christmas at all. It's about how to gear celebrations in public when we are a very much different society to 60 years ago.

Christmas definitely shouldn't be banned but there are some that do feel excluded. The exclusion isn't intentional at all but should we give at least some thought to how to improve inclusivity?

I take it a lot of poster of other faiths do not mind Christmas and indeed celebrate it eagerly but of importance is they do it out of choice. With Christmas there is an element of either you celebrate or you identify as a person not quite an outsider but not practising a norm.

It's ensuring that people do take these feelings into account which ai admit is a difficult at times when everyone is in a celebratory mood

I would argue that people of other faiths don't actually feel excluded. The Muslims I know always attend Christmas celebrations. They hate the fact that people accuse them of banning the word Christmas or of interfering in Christmas celebrations. I only see white people hand-wringing over this. Muslims are absolutely fine with Christmas celebrations but receive a lot of hate because people think they're not!!
Our Muslim Head of Department was the colleague who was most excited about our Christmas party. He doesn't drink but couldn't care less if others did. Every Muslim in our team (and we have many Muslim colleagues) attended the Christmas party and enjoyed it. Just as we attended the Eid party held in the summer.

I have never known anyone of other faiths to feel excluded because people celebrate Christmas. My family are from India. They celebrate everything. When I was last there, it was an Eid holiday. I didn't feel excluded. Have Muslims come up to you and said 'I feel excluded because you are calling this a Christmas party at Christmas'? Or is it, as many other have said, White people either deliberately causing division or innocently putting words into other peoples mouths and making things worse for people who are of a different race and religion?
Most people at my works Christmas party didn't drink, because they were driving, or for any other reason. No one batted an eyelid. Why cant you be in a celebratory mood because you are about to have a break from work, or because its the end of the year, or because yo are having a get together with colleagues? Just because its called a Christmas party and some people might have a plastic cup of wine, why are you excluded?

Do people really think like this? I work in a very multi-cultural office in Birmingham where the VERY successful Christmas party is usually organised by a VERY enthusiastic Muslim colleague - who, despite being teetotal herself - negotiates some very favourable drinks packages. My Muslim SIL and brother-in-law (DH's brother - he's a Muslim convert) have hosted our family for the Christmas celebrations - very traditional Xmas lunch with everything bar the pigs in blankets. As previous posters have said, it leads to Islamophobic Far Right claims about what 'the Muslims' want, when the instigation for de-Christmassing the festive season is from (well-intentioned) others.

Exactly, by constantly raising this as an issue you're just doing more harm than good. It really does harm Muslim people and those of other faiths to spread this idea that we have to adapt our celebrations to suit them. They don't want us to, they don't ask us to.