Christmas with religiously and ethnically diverse with community

[mids2019]

So I work in a trust where possibly 20% of staff are Muslim and there are plenty of other religions represented too with some Christians .

This year with the traditional Christmas parties and general Christmas build up there have been conversations about our holiday period being centred around one religion to the detriment of others. There are no bank holidays associated with Eid or Diwali and people for instance.

I think in general people do get in the general communal Christmas spirit but for instance the traditional meal and drinks which is meant to be a celebratory time for staff has maybe maybe feel staff feel excluded with many junior staff members of non Christian faith feeling uncomfortable with going so simply didnt. There were a subgroup of staff that organise a large meal with the alcohol flowing but it really is becoming obvious that there needs to be a more inclusive event of the Christmas do is partly to show gratitude to hard working staff.

Do we need to reflect at Christmas not everyone celebrates it and with the continued Christ in the name it is still a relgous festival and as such people with strong faith in other religions may be a little reluctant to embrace the festoval?

A lot of posters seem to have entirely positive experiences which is fine but is this giving due consideration of those whose faith may be quite deep and the prominence and expectation of participation in Christmas socially can maybe uncomfortable.

Why does due consideration need to be given to the more deeply faithful? They can just not partake in something that is centred around beliefs/activities that are forbidden to them. No one should get offended that they aren’t of course.

I’ve worked with Hindu, Muslim and Jewish people, all cultural rather than religious and they’ve all joined in Christmas parties, all drink alcohol. I worked with a devout Muslim who declined to come to a summer party because alcohol would be served and she felt it haram to be there. She told us this with a smile and not a single complaint. I know Jewish business owners who are fairly observant and the Christmas party they hosted every year was the stuff of legend, footage always uploaded to you tube. My son works for a small Jewish owned company where he is one of only two non Jews, but they held a Christmas celebration.

Leave the religious people be to celebrate the festivals important to them

No consideration ever needs to be given to the deeply faithful of any religion. Your faith is your own and you don't get to impose it on others.

Honestly, so much else wrong with the workplace: ageism, sexism, ridiculous working hours. This isn't the hill to die on.

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Yes but that's ignoring the big issue of including men (who say they are women) in women's rape crisis centres, hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, awards ceremonies, sports etc.

Including men (who say they are women) can not only exclude women (especially those of faiths where women cannot mix with men) but increase the risk of harm to women. Just think of the female volleyball player who has brain damage after a transwoman slammed the ball into her head.

In many cases the concept of inclusiveness does exclude women.

In the same way, many people's understanding of diversity is harmful. Just look at the OP wanting to erase the word "Christmas" from a Christian festival in order to be "inclusive" of other religions. And other posters on this thread who have said they would never say "Happy holidays" to a Muslim at Eid but will say it to Christians at Christmas despite Christians on this thread saying that they find it offensive.

I have clarified that happy holidays is not against the rules of Christian religions. I checked this again with a family member who is a Bishop so I am guessing he is up to date.

The men and women issue? Or are you referencing trans women in that? And I won't getting that derailment as is usual in this platform!

The issue in this thread is specifically about inclusion of everyone in a professional social capacity so it should be absolutely engrained as inclusive.

That is just silly.
If you were in a muslim or other religion or culture country, you would have days off for eid or divali or whatever, and people would go out to celebrate with a work do.
Why are these people uncomfortable going out for lunch with their colleagues before the winter break?
Would you refuse to go out with your colleagues for lunch before one of their breaks if you were abroad?
I think that is beyond rude. And discriminatory to the country they are in to be honest. Why work somewhere and not bother joining in the culture? It is so close minded.

Perhaps a little education is required on your behalf. Plenty of religious rules mean they can't attend alcohol based events etc.

The arrogance of you not understanding that their religion is part of the UK culture screams of the underlying issue, racism and ignorance.

The individuals may be as English as you but hold different beliefs handed down to them as you were handed to your

This is nonsense. Saying "happy holidays" has nothing to do with Christian "rules", whatever your family Bishop says! There are no Biblical "rules" on what to say at Christmas and the Bible doesn't even use the word "Christmas".

As with all faiths, you should be guided by what people of that faith are telling you. Christians (and non-Christians) on this thread have said that they find the erasure of the word "Christmas" and replacing it with "Happy Holidays" offensive. You have said that you wouldn't say this to Muslim instead of Eid but will say it to Christians despite them finding it offensive. The fact that some Bishop has told you there is no "rule" against it is irrelevant. There is no "rule" against saying it to Muslims or Jews or Hindus either but yet you wouldn't do it.

I think you should self-reflect on why you are happy to continue to do something that Christians have told you they find offensive but not do it to other religions.

Why are these people uncomfortable going out for lunch with their colleagues before the winter break?

They're not, people are just tying themselves up in knots and being offended on others peoples behalf.

Meanwhile, in the real world, people don't object to work events and parties that include alcohol and make a personal decision as to whether they want celebrate particular holidays and festivals. You know, like grown ups that they are. Nobody is offended by Christmas or Christmas parties.

Just revised tjis with DH and agreed that great way to make feel everyone valued if they will not attend for x reasons is to have party and small gifts for tjose who cannot attend. That includes disabled, people with caring responsibility and religious reasons.
Everyone gets a thank you in a way that suits.
No one is lwft out of thanks, no one reasonable feels agreaved on behalf of others (someone always will...) no "they are banning Christmas".

@75578FB can you link the Hindu brewery? Tried uncle google but nothing is popping up and I am always for trying new independent beers

I am not English.LOL
Nobody asks anyone to drink, at least on our Christmas dos. Wasn't this a lunch we were talking about? By the way. It was not about going out clubbing.

That is indeed my experience of real life! Nobody gets offended.
They also bring lots of yummies associated to other cultures throughout the year, with a bit of background. And it is lovely.
How can you possibly be offended at getting invited to a lunch?

I re-read it, it is a meal, which could be dinner instead of lunch. My bad. Drinks can be pepsi, which is what I usually have, or lemonade.

It appears your comprehension is lacking like your manners.

I clearly stated I was unaware of the rules of religions other than Christian so I WOULD ASK!

No I wouldn't say happy Christmas because I don't celebrate it. It isn't rocket science! I am about six generations non religious but you want me to embrace your beliefs while I ignore my own compass? Yep not thanks.

Must tell the BIL his stance of Bishop isn't as respected by his flock as he claims 🤣🤣

At my sons very diverse school (with a significant Muslim proportion of students) some of the Muslim mums organise a little stall type thing in the foyer on the day of Eid and give out a small bag of sweets/biscuits to all the children and any adults walking by. its lovely, and completely organised by the mums themselves not the school (though of course the school lets them use the foyer). There is no argument that the school should be organising something. By contrast, Christmas celebrations/decorations are done by the school and there is a lovely little Christmas dinner where each pupil brings some food from home to share. I haven't heard any parent complain about the fact this is a Christmas celbration. Most of the Muslims I know would say they recognise Jesus as a prophet anyway, just not the son of god. And it is the culture of the country we are in. It also allows each child to acknowledge their own home background/their family culture by bringing food in. Its win win. No bad feeling.

So I wouldn't think it necessary to not celebrate Christmas/water down the celebration of Christmas. However, I do think that maybe centring events around drinking alcohol/the pub is much more likely to be excluding people. Not just Muslims but also other people who are not into drinking culture. Even people who like drinking don't necessarily want to do it with colleagues. So it would make more sense to keep the Christmas but ditch the drinking/pub side. And if people are complaining that nothing is done to celebrate their own traditions then its down to them to do something.

It mentioned alcohol being present, so it is inferred to be on a licenced premises.

Not English either,.

Also, some people just dislike socialising with colleagues or mandatory fun. I know plenty of white, Christian, British people who avoid such things. In fact I think being a bit grumpy is a British trait anyway. So maybe the people avoiding work events are doing it for that reason.

If the people of others faiths have an issue with this then they can raise it with their bosses. Why do you feel they need you to speak for them? Are you trying to be the woke white saviour? That position doesn't help anyone IMO.

Alcohol is there. Nobody bats an eyelid if you do not want it. I would expect someone livinh in UK to know that vety well.
But if anyone does not want to go because this, up to them. Politely declining the invitation is ok. This of being offended or uncomfortable makes zero sense to me and I find it beyond closed minded, to be honest.

Yes but 80%+ presumably want to celebrate it. I'm wholly against eroding culture for the majority to accommodate a minority. However, I do think that those minority groups' festivals should also be added to the mix. That way you are not taking away from people but giving something extra and introducing other cultures too. All religions should be celebrated.

Why can’t people just go to these things and not drink? If you can’t even sit next to a glass of baileys because of your religious beliefs then the issue is with yourself

Quote: "The trust are now sending happy holidays greetings on their website so I think they are becoming more conscious about cultural sensitivities."

More conscious? By eroding the festivities of the majority?!! That will grate people more than anything and shows a total lack of respect. I hate the whole diluting/white washing of Christmas. And what minorities are asking people to ban references to Christmas? My bet is that they're not. It's probably the idea of some ignorant do gooder with the minorities then taking the flack for it!

The correct approach would be to organise a two part event (one non alcoholic) or an alcohol free table for those who can't drink, followed by a after party at the pub for those who wish to drink. Or alternatively celebrate other festivals too. The answer definitely isn't taking away from the majority as that just causes greater division.

Well you may be shocked because most companies I deal with are moving away from alcohol being at their parties.

Ironically you seem to not understand that a belief system may not permit them to be there. Seeing alcohol as the default is more than closed minded, it's extremely unhealthy and is the reason a lot of individuals with issues with alcohol struggle to maintain their social lives .

It is a very sorry state of affairs that your mind is so closed to alcohol being necessary for a work based social event.

Hopefully the younger generation will bring forth their more understanding approach.

I did not say anything on the lines that alcohol should be there, or as a default to anything. But if it is there, you can easily head for the water and fizzy drinks. That is what I meant
I see nothing worthy of mention if someone politely declines an invite to a work do. But what is with saying they feel uncomfortable about going, saying Happy Holiday instead of Merry Christmas, so not to offend, and the tip toeing around?
If the reason they will not attend is alcohol is present, then a polite no thanks would be good to me. I do respect and understand their choice due to religion.

If my work colleagues organise a meal for their big celebration and they invite me and there is a food item I do not approve of or which does not agree with me, I would still go and find a salad, rice or other neutral thing. Because I would want to spend a bit of time knowing them better, thanking them for sharing and learning a bit about the world. I would consider myself closed minded if I can only focus on one item being there. But if it was of much meaning to me, I would just say no, thanks. Easy. No need to get uncomfortable or offended because I do not celebrate X or anything else.
Or are vegans and vegetarians going to do their own dos from now onwards? Separated from the meat eaters? Instead of chosing the options that suite their diet on the menu? Are we all having vegan food this year and banning the words beef or pork for the season?