Christmas with religiously and ethnically diverse with community

[mids2019]

So I work in a trust where possibly 20% of staff are Muslim and there are plenty of other religions represented too with some Christians .

This year with the traditional Christmas parties and general Christmas build up there have been conversations about our holiday period being centred around one religion to the detriment of others. There are no bank holidays associated with Eid or Diwali and people for instance.

I think in general people do get in the general communal Christmas spirit but for instance the traditional meal and drinks which is meant to be a celebratory time for staff has maybe maybe feel staff feel excluded with many junior staff members of non Christian faith feeling uncomfortable with going so simply didnt. There were a subgroup of staff that organise a large meal with the alcohol flowing but it really is becoming obvious that there needs to be a more inclusive event of the Christmas do is partly to show gratitude to hard working staff.

Do we need to reflect at Christmas not everyone celebrates it and with the continued Christ in the name it is still a relgous festival and as such people with strong faith in other religions may be a little reluctant to embrace the festoval?

You said ‘I wouldn't want anyone saying Happy Holidsys to me.’ - if you wouldn’t be offended then what’s the problem?

Because a) it's an American saying and b) if I wished someone Happy Christmas I would hope they would be courteous enough to reciprocate.

I genuinely see ‘happy Christmas’ and ‘happy holidays’ as interchangeable, not sure why one being American is an issue either

And this is why people need to talk to each other and not assume that they know what will or will not offend people of different faiths or cultures to them.

Jesus is not, as you seem to think, an important figure in all three of the Abrahamic religions. He is not any figure in Judaism - other than as someone in whose name terrible things have been done to Jews.

Still doesn't mean we have any desire to stop you celebrating Christmas.

Ah I do apologise @Dilbertian

I'm not actually a Christian, although I do celebrate Christmas 🎄

My grandmother converted from Judaism to Catholicism in order to marry my grandfather and the fact that Jesus was Jewish was very important to her. I'm guessing that was just the Catholicism speaking!

I'm an atheist but can guarantee that pretty much every christian I know (quite a number) would prefer Happy/Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

It was explained to me by one Mulim colleague that no one seemed to know when Eid was generally and there was reluctance for mangers to release significant numbers of staff for holiday during this period which ranckled.

Some groups of people including mangers organised traditional Chriatimas boozy meals and didn't really give thought why those attending were mainly white,Christoan or at least from a Christian culture. The optics weren't great.

Yes, no body is forced to celebrate any religion but Christmas at least in our workplace is associated with some celebration and general congratulations of staff married with team bonding. If your major social occasion excluded people although not intentionally is it sensible to think of venues?

A lot of posters seem to have entirely positive experiences which is fine but is this giving due consideration of those whose faith may be quite deep and the prominence and expectation of participation in Christmas socially can maybe uncomfortable.

Your experience seems to be at odds with the vast majority of us who have Muslim colleagues who enjoy the Christmas celebrations.
As for not giving annual leave for Eid, I think that's wrong. It's the most important date in the Muslim calendar and Muslims should absolutely be allowed to take leave if they wish. Obviously this depends on business needs but as a manager, I'd do everything I could to facilitate this.

It was explained to me by one Mulim colleague that no one seemed to know when Eid was generally

That will be most likely because they move and which Eid are you talking about as well. The more significant is Al Adha. Again, dates move and are not officially confirmed until quite shortly before.

The Muslim calander is lunar, so religious festivals will not be at the same time every year when compared to the Christian calander. Ramadan migrates through the year, it can be in summer here or winter. The Hebrew calander is also lunar. So it's not like a person can ask at the beginning of the annual leave year, can I have these days off off, because they don't know exactly the dates until much closer to the time.

Thank you for the information but doesn't Easter move as well? (Based on the Jewish Passover originally?). I think the principle was religious celebration didn't feature at all into general staffing planning at all.

They can with the Jewish calendar. The dates for most festivals - especially the major festivals - are established several years in advance.

I'm sure it's been mentioned by now but it's far from a Christian celebration, it's been a feasting period going back to the Romans and saturnalia.

It's because it's... Very dark. People have brought trees in and lit fires to remember good times will come again. It's plain human nature.

Hope in the darkest darkest times.

It's interesting I have found though that being a religious person it's harder for some of them to understand this, that our Xmas is a huge mix Of so many different things that have nothing to do with religion at all.

Some can't compute that for some reason.

Easter is the first Sunday that falls after the first full moon after march 21st. If that makes sense. And I realise that Jewish festivals are known years in advance. I was merely pointing out that other calander aren't solar but lunar.

I was merely pointing out that other calander aren't solar but lunar.

Moon phases are very predictable. My paper diary tells me when the main festivals are for sale the major religions for the year ahead and the one following. They may be movable feasts, but they're not entirely random or unknown.

Yeah but they stay in about the same area on the calendar

Nearly all major religions took over already existing feasts and celebrations as their own

I agree, those who want to celebrating christmas- great. If the company are combining it with the general end of year round up/thanks/bonuses then it is unfortunately exclusionary. I'd suggest a new year party instead (from the company, nothing is stopping individuals celebrating christmas or Eid etc when they roll around) . Pretty sure most would celebrate the new year? And even for those who might have a different one it's not a religious thing so less likely for people to feel they shouldn't go.
Plus its easier to get a venue in early January and people have more free time. And January is depressing so a good party near the beginning of the month knight be quite fun 😆

Yeah but it still has to be confirmed by moon sightings so while the dates are approximately known, the exact date is confirmed from Saudi way closer to/on the date.

I'm 1000% English and atheist and I'd absolutely hate it. I think work supported heavy drinking events are wildly inappropriate and in a lot of places are onthe way out. Just look back for the thread on 'worst things you've seen at a work christmas party' and you will see just how wrong they can go.

And the lunar calendar causes a shortfall of about 10 days every year when compared to the solar calendar. And when festivals start I'd determined by when the moon appears over Mecca, I think. So it's not absolute.

Near enough for planning leave though.

Timing is crutial so you don't hit Orthodox Christmas, Epiphany or the Sikh event (sorry, forgot who's birthday it is).
Then you get the question of "but why is their calendar not important as yours?" and so on.
Simply, there is never a situation when someone will not be able to come up with "but" especially if they are mumsnetters skilled in But Olympics 😉

Edited my to their because this usually doesn't even come from the people "affected" directly but someone who thinks the people might have an issue with it

@waltzingparrot

That sounds an excellent idea!

Where I worked years ago there was a Jehova's witness guy. He (obvs) would not join in with our Christmas do and people always remarked on it but he would have been thought a hypocrite if he had done!!

I happen to live in a largely Muslim community in the UK. I am Christian. My neighbours tell me they enjoy going to their works Christmas parties. My neighbour’s children love to come and help decorate my Christmas tree. I start receiving WhatsApp messages in early December asking for present ideas for my small grandchildren. There is a local council campaign to encourage people from all faiths to join in the secular side of Christmas ,and local groups work together on matters of faith and religious reconciliation. My Muslim neighbours send beautiful Christmas cards to us ! We send cards and give presents at Eid. We also attend a professional pantomime production together. I expect many communities experience this way of living in modern Britain.