Why are we still celebrating Michael Jackson?

[Conniebygaslight]

Just that really…this man shared his bed with children but it was excused as him being ‘childlike’
I know his music is iconic but seriously, there are so many live tribute shows to celebrate him and his music is played everywhere. It feels wrong on so many levels.
Surely we can’t just pick & choose who we accept predatory behaviour from…?!

The analogies are terrible, no matter your capitals, which may be why you don't want to engage with them properly!

And you are making you things which I did not say and not reading what I'm writing: I'm not overlooking Jackson's behaviour because he was rich and famous. It's because I like his work. Exactly the same as the loft extension of the dead paedophile builder, who is not rich or famous.

I didn’t think for a moment you wouldn’t. You would have to in order to listen to the music of a paedophile.

Problem with all your responses to me is that you keep focusing on the builder/milkman thing, that wasn’t the point, it was just saying that if an average joe regularly had little boys sleeping in his bed he would be asked some serious questions, the job doesn’t matter, he had little boys sleeping in his bed. So MJ was a singer who had huge chart success, but had little boys sleeping in his bed, and many keep saying, ‘ummmm but his music was good, so it’s ok to listen to it’ il just pop it in there one last time, in capitals as you seem to appreciate those LITTLE BOYS SLEEPING IN HIS BED! If that was a guy down the road, he wouldn’t get away with it! That was the analogy!

I agree

Same here and l think Thriller is still the best selling album of all time.

💯 agree

Alice in Wonderland was created by a pedophile but people are still reading the story. Why is Michael Jackson being demonised?

And the royalties that these albums receive (albums that were made at a time when he was abusing boys) sends a very clear message - that the people willing to listen to and download his music could not care less about the victims in his abuse.

Except that’s not true. There are plenty of posts on here who talk about having been abused/heard a rumour about/being aware of people who have committed awful crimes, and the people who carry on supporting those people. We just don’t know about them because they’re nobodies.

Also, if those people haven’t actively been convicted of a crime then it’s a lot harder to cancel them out in real life. Because they’re innocent until proven guilty.

Whether people like it or not MJ wasn’t actually convicted of a crime. nobody can say for certain that he was guilty, because he was found not guilty, and one of his alleged victims has admitted that he lied about being abused, so whether people like it or not, it’s not straightforward.

Ok, but this seems irrelevant to this thread. It's not about whether he got away with it. It's too late for that discussion. It's about whether we should listen to his music.

(Incidentally I'm genuinely curious about what you'd do about the loft extension of the dead paedophile builder.)

Nothing. Assuming I could be sure he hadn’t tortured any of his victims or secluded any bodies there it would just be a loft extension.

I actually know people who had work done by Fred west, and it just is what it is. At the time they found it somewhat creepy, but it’s ludicrous to e.g. think people should have had their extensions pulled down or moved house.

Presumably no-one would hand over money to a known paedophile to build their extension, even if his extensions were the best that money could buy this side of the Atlantic - and so his legacy would be very limited. Those who did choose to look the other way and got Paedophile Pete in would presumably shrug and say ‘ahhh, but look at the pointing on that brickwork’.

Sir Chenjins, you are a master at evading the question! But I shall push you no further.

MJ is still celebrated because he was one of the greatest artists of all time. He was iconic and groundbreaking. Maybe younger people aren't aware of just how huge he was, but what he achieved is unlikely to be repeated. You can't cancel a genius.

In reality that line is absolutely there- whether it should be or not is most definitely another matter, but I think there's a degree of pragmatism which is applied in reality over whether someone is cancelled or not.

Exactly - which is why you don't see people boycotting all of Weinstein's films - why throw the baby out with the bath water?

Granted, he's not on screen so it's not quite so 'in your face' as listening to/watching the actual person, but it would be mad to conclude that my enjoying Chicago or The Others means that I condone Weinstein's crimes.

Might have been mentioned already, but I always wonder this when my kids watch the Lego Batman Movie. Just, why? But then studios in the US still sometimes use Gary Glitter's music.

Nor had Jimmy Saville…

On the contrary - I’ve explained the double standards and what some people are willing to look past when celebrities are involved.

I was a teenager in the 80s, I remember his music very well - and I also remember the controversy. Many of us at that point were concerned enough to take a stand - but plenty were happy to look the other way. He was worth too much to let a little paedophilia stand in the promoters way.

MJ was a manipulative paedophile who hid behind his wealth to exploit and abuse children.

When his nefarious activities were exposed, every time he came on the radio, I turned the radio off (and I will continue to do so). I hope he rots in hell.

Countless people aren't found guilty, but it doesn't mean they're innocent.

MJ was a prolific child abuser who used his wealth and status to hide in plain sight.

Must admit. Was slightly surprised when a new musical, “MJ the Musical” opened. I agree his music is iconic, and was huge in the 80s, and was something we hadn’t heard or seen (in the case of his videos) before.

However, in this day and age, the mere sniff of something untoward can ruin your career. Philip Schofield, for example, befriended someone when young, and helped his career, and had a consensual relationship after he was 20. If MJ is innocent, then you could argue that Philip Schofield did nothing wrong.

So the question was what would you do with the loft extension built by a dead paedophile builder.

@SirChenjins ignore this, my point was nothing to do with what you would do with an extension built by a pedophile, it was that if an average Joe, like a builder down the street slept in a bed with young boys, he would be dragged over the coals, where as MJ for some reason never has been, because of his fame and money!

Thanks @Melodyfair , it's a fair question though, and an interesting comparison.

(And I think it was you who introduced the analogy!)

It was me that introduced it yes, but the point wasn’t about that he would be a builder, it was about that he would be hounded and rightly so if he was an average man on the street, the builder thing was just the first example of an average job that entered my head, he could be a factory worker, shop assistant, mechanic, it wouldn’t matter what his average job was, just that people would not let him have young kids in his bed in his terrace in Barnsley or wherever. But because MJ is a rich musician he got away without people gunning for him.