Thread 13 Starmer - facts are for lefties

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5214955-thread-12-starmer-from-prescott-to-rayner-working-class-grit?page=40&reply=140341929

She can't be far behind him in jumping ship, surely?

Of course she will. Purely as a career move.

And think of the mixed metaphor opportunities. Big fish, little sea, sinking ship... Oh rats.

99% of her comments on her FB page are begging her to join reform.

I'd love her to. But not if it means my areas becomes reform!

Good point @itsgettingweird we don't want any sitting MPs jumping ship. That would give them enough MPs to lay a wreath at the cenotaph for a start.

Presumably Mr Braverman had switched parties to turn the screw on Badenoch. Braverman doesn't have a shadow cabinet post - I wonder if she wanted a position or not.

An asylum official who spoke to the Observeron condition of anonymity said changes implemented after former prime minister Sunak’s pledge to process more than 90,000 old asylum claims by the end of 2023 had made decisions less safe.
“They significantly shortened the training period for asylum decision-makers,” they added. “They raised the targets to clear the backlog, focusing on quantity rather than quality. Decision-makers were expected to crank out seven ‘events’ a week, come hell or high water, and that adversely impacted on the quality of their decisions.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/08/home-office-says-only-half-of-uk-asylum-decisions-meet-its-quality-standards

Costing us more money and less safe. Marvellous.

I think its more worrying that Reform are polling higher than Labour, just 5 months in.
With 1 poll putting than ahead of both main parties, i know the next GE is 4/5 years away but what the xxxx is the matter with people???

The people running Reform are vile.

From a previous conversation on here, I think we should be right to worry about "traditional" Labour voters looking at Reform. In places like the "Red Wall", they're not necessarily looking at the politics, nor even what is actually of any benefit to them, but they've voted Labour more out of "tradition". There are still many racists amongst them, and they will inevitably be attracted to the racists running Reform Ltd.

The more the press keeps normalising them, and the Beeb & co keep platforming them, the more votes they are going to get.

Boris the buffoon wasn't "Britain Trump", that'll be Fartage. And it will be Trump mark II as we're seeing emerge over the pond...

Over the past few days on LBC there have been at least two phone ins on whether Reform is going to be in government in five or ten years. It is though there is an agenda to push the concept.

On the other hand, apparently for most people immigration is not something they base their voting decsions on. So that is a comfort.

I think Labour's truthfulness is making their message too complex for a section of the electorate. A lot of people only fleetingly engage with politics, so Reform's "they are your problem, get rid and you'll have no problems" is more digestible than Labour's "we'll tax now to get the underlying issues fixed so we can improve conditions for most of us in the fullness of time"

Ime its not just traditional Labour voters going to Reform, its Tory voters too.

I think people just feel the 2 main parties have done nothing for them and tbh, who can blame them, they are right, i know i go on about it but Blair did zilch about NHS dentistry, people are buying kits from Amazon to fix their teeth or ending up in AE.

Labours silence on this matter is very telling, they'll do nothing.... BDA say Streetings plans for Dentistry have gone AWOL !! no start of roll out of emg appointments and no plans to renegotiate the dental contract.

I also believe that many Tories in the countryside will be pretty scared listening to AR on planning and house building, wildlife & local decision making might not matter to her but it does to millions of people throughout England.... Reform will spin this.... though as we haven't got the builders available to build houses, its likely not a lot will change.

Unless Labour make a real difference to people lives, they'll be out in 2029 and rightly so.

These people want decent jobs, money spending on their areas, and housing. They see immigrants as competitors for all of this. Reform will mop up voters unless Labour delivers.

There was a real point of horror during the election when there was a debate in Grimsby between Sunak and Starmer. As Sunak entered the building there was a kind of collective howling from the crowd which was very very alarming. You could hear during the debate and drumming and shouting outside. Let’s not kid ourselves that this will not be Keir Starmer unless his party delivers by the time of the next election.

What do you think a real difference would look like?

Clearly people are turning to Reform. Is it because of what they think they offer or because of what they aren't getting at the moment?

In no particularly order... GP services, better quality roads, dental treatment, AE waits, energy bills, lower rents/better protections - the proposed renters bill is next to useless, a LL can still evict though no fault of the tenant & can still increase rents at the market rate and who sets that??? Energy prices going up, despite wholesale costs going down.... people aren't completely stupid.

On the 2nd point, combination of both but i think its primarily "change" many feel Lab/Tory have had their chances.

As the Brexit vote proved, people don't always vote in their best interests, Starmer has yet to set out his vision in a way people actually understand, i ve no idea what their missions/milestones or pledges are, its all talk, hot air, he talks of closer EU co-op so why aren't we back in Erasmus?

The WFA debacle was one of the biggest own goals possible, as was taking gifts, within the rules or not, its set a narrative that Labour are no different and tory papers/media leapt on it.

When my own Labour councilor who i know very well, privately, says "its been a disaster" you know things aren't going well.

There's such a rubbish message being given out on the media. I watched the local news yesterday and they stopped people in the streets to ask how many out of 10 they would give Starmer. One guy said 10 but the rest ranged from 1 to 5. The reasons given were rubbish. Nobody said anything positive.

Now this is ok but we know there has been a lot of positive that isn't being talked about. Why didn't the presenter throw some in and ask what they thought of those? I think we know why.

Yes the media love to knock someone down down, especially a Labour Govt.

Who remembers the Social Democrats ?

Anyway ...

sussexbylines.co.uk/news/environment/time-for-a-tax-on-cats/

Here's a good opportunity for Labour to message the hell out of the Tories with the clear tagline they are fixed the botched Brexit (and alliteration is as good as rhyming when it comes to punchy two word knockout blows)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceql9x5rd30o

what Nigel presented v's reality

Nigel Farage's Conference Experience: Insights and Reactions | TikTok

As far as the "Rise of Reform", their Achilles heel (sorry it that is a tad elitist) is always going to be Brexit. Farage needs to be needled at every opportunity as to

"hows that Brexit going ? You know - the thing you wanted for Christmas"

because the only comeback is to point out how the Tories broke his toy.

That is how Labour needs to manage them. Let them tear chunks out of each other over it too.

It would disingenuous to point out how close "Reform" and "Rejoin" are as six letter words that begin with "R" are.

Agree Serendipity - i have been surprised how little Brexit is raised with Farage.

Alistair Campbell tore him a new one over Brexit on QT last week. All he could do was bluster “It was eight years ago. Get over it”. He definitely needs to reminded of it at every possible opportunity.

It might be as well to needle Farage but honestly I don’t think his target voters will care. This is about disenchantment and failure of mainstream parties to deliver. Farage can simply say he would have done it better, bs maybe but he has the luxury of not having to deliver things.

Look at the hostility to Labour who are trying. Brexit was a protest vote. Farage will try and create conditions where he gets that; protest via Reform.

Because it suits the people asking him.

"Our mate Phil has noted how Farage really isn't liking the accountability side of being an MP. As his last appearance on QT shows. He's made quite a big mistake putting himself in a position where he can legitimately be asked "So what you gonna do about it ?"

The ultimate way to skewer Farage is to point out that by his own definition Brexit has been a success. Because otherwise he promised he would leave the UK.

And he isn't a man to break a promise is he ?

It might be as well to needle Farage but honestly I don’t think his target voters will care.

Remember - you can't call them thick.