I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

Thank you @dottycat123. To be honest your post makes a lot of sense. I can remember when I was a lot younger that the words "personality disorder" were mentioned in relation to him. But funnily when he was on the phone to the crisis team the other day and was asked what his diagnosis was after he'd explained his history, he said there wasn't one. Denial? I really do think there is something going on, whether a personality disorder or some sort of neurodiversity (or both).

@Gabitule thank you so so much for sharing your own story. This part absolutely hits the nail on the head:

"I genuinely feel for him as I think his manipulation comes from his illness and not from some calculated evilness. I think him saying he’d hurt your daughter is just a massive cry for help.
But of course I feel more for you because I see myself in you and I understand how torn you must feel, and guilty. I know that setting boundaries comes with initial relief but further guilt and anxiety down the line, with traumatic memories… Argh, why is life so unfair."

That explains exactly how I'm feeling. Even if he isn't as ill as he's presenting (i.e. what @dottycat123 said) it really feels that it's not a vindictive thing - but that may be my own inherent guilt complex making me think that. Yes x 100 to the initial feeling of relief re boundaries and then the guilt setting in.

When he disclosed to the triage nurse about feeling scared and him wanting to hurt people (he referred to feeling rage) and the specific mention of DD, she took all her details (full name, date of birth, ADHD diagnosis etc.) and it did enter my mind that she may be doing a referral by default to social services so they can check that I'm keeping her safe. And actually that really helps me, because it bypasses/negates any intense feelings of guilt that I may have - there is no arguing with that.

Anyway. So I ended up leaving him at 3am to come home, it was getting to the stage that it was going to be dangerous to drive as I was so tired. Turns out he'd not even been referred to the mental health team by then so he saw an A&E doctor briefly. I made it very clear to her about the threats of violence and that being discharged into my care was not an option, she honestly rolled her eyes at me! I went to speak to her after and said what would you do if you had a child at home with threats to her safety and a DH recovering from his own MH crisis and suicide attempt? She said she would include it in the notes on his referral. I was so bloody angry. His lovely nurse did understand when I spoke to her before I left though.

I drove home and just sobbed and sobbed. I got home at about 3:45 and continued to sob but did actually fall asleep pretty fast. The bloody electrics went off though and we all slept in. DD didn't get to school until about 9:15 (starts at 8:35). DH can't find what's tripping the electrics! FML.

I've been in touch with brother and he's now spoken to the MH team. @dottycat123 you hit the nail on the head, they want him to return to his home city to continue his treatment there, but my brother is insisting he be admitted here. He thinks they're trying to find him a bed now.

I just read your updates, OP.

Your brother has expressed violent ideation towards your daughter because he has been in the child position for his entire life, and he can't stand the thought that your daughter, or anyone else, will take the focus of your attention off him. (I have an aunt who is like that -- she expressed her shock and jealousy when my mother had grandchildren. It hadn't crossed her mind that anyone would require my mother's attention. She was in her 70s).

This seems to be exactly what your father does too -- he can't bear anyone, including his own son, taking the focus of his wife's attention off him.

And this has been going on for years -- you and your mother (and possibly many other people) have enabled it, with all the best intentions.

He wants to be in the position of a child being taken care of by a maternal figure for the rest of his life. You have a daughter and a husband and yourself who come first. This needs to end.

Your DB sounds so shockingly self-centred it's actually appalling.

Good advice up thread on here and I'm glad to see that you're taking that on board.

He does need to realise and to hear that you all have your problems as well. He simply cannot be allowed to continue to lean on you all so completely. He needs a therapist if all he wants to talk about is himself and his own problems - hopefully a good one can help him to pull his head out of his arse in time and work on his behaviour.

You've all been incredibly patient with him at great cost to your own health, happiness and home life. If he can get help to change his behaviour hopefully that can also change his 'poor me' self-obsessed mindset. I do know people who have struggled with depression both currently and in the past and none of them have behaved quite so selfishly as what you've described in your DB.

Just a further thought, he sounds like he's completely lacking in theory of mind (ability to understand others' mental states) - is he autistic?

OP: I think you should make a formal complaint to the hospital about the doctor. Really. (And I speak as someone whose daughter is a hospital doctor.)

I was thinking with your Dad's behaviour your DB has been taught how to behave to get his own way so I too would not be surprised if it's PD mixed with ND and learned manipulative behaviour rather than a true crises.

Op this site might be of use to you

Out of the FOG

https://outofthefog.website

I think you are bang on the money

I was literally just saying to DH how brother and dad both think the world revolves around them, dad maintained this by using fear and bullying tactics, but brother uses emotional blackmail it seems. Both to the same end though.

Your brother has expressed violent ideation towards your daughter because he has been in the child position for his entire life, and he can't stand the thought that your daughter, or anyone else, will take the focus of your attention off him.

100% this. I've just read your updates OP, and TBH this seems to be the wake up call you needed to start resetting what's happened over many, many years - and from being so young when it started too.

Your brother really has taken everything you've had to offer, and then expected more, whatever the cost to you. it's awful.

Well done on you calling the A&E dr to task! I'm sure it would be much easier for her if you'd just take him home with you again but you've done something so very important there and stated a boundary to someone outside of the family.

Well done OP, I know it may not feel like it but you’re doing the right thing for yourself and your family unit. The guilt and feelings of responsibility will ease over time, I promise.

Our brothers sound very very similar, although my nearly 40 year old brother has always moved between my parents houses and never lived independently. Over the past year I have completely distanced myself because I am sick of the constant medical updates, fabrications, manufactured crises, and self centred conversations that revolve around him, his mental health and troubles. He is currently living with my only surviving parent who has finally decided he needs to move out, and I am feeling the pressure to swoop in and sort him out. But I’m standing strong, my DC and DP need me and they’re my primary responsibility now. As a result, my DB expresses extreme dislike of my DP, which reminds me of your DBs reaction to your daughter. Sometimes it’s helpful to remember that these patterns of behaviour aren’t isolated and singular, they’re not because you’re a bad person, and they are connected to particular diagnoses and illnesses.

Look after yourself OP, you’re an amazing mum, partner and sister. Time to look after yourself too.

Your brother is autistic???? Undiagnosed???
Sounds to me like he needs some supported living
However,I know personally how difficult that is to get for relatives .
Social services can do an assessment of him ,and put in carers to come in his home to help him.
For a start ,that won't happen while he's living with you .
You have to send him home and call social services to assess him,
Which is difficult if he refuses.
Your parents sound in no fit state to manage him
So he 100% needs a social worker ,to get him some support and advice with benefits
Your doing him no long term favours letting him lean on you like this ,your basically doing the job of social services for them .
And social services will not help him ,while you keep stepping in to the breach

Is it worth you contacting your local social services helpdesk and ask for a social worker to be assigned to him? Explain the situation and that he's made threats to harm your DD - and that under no circumstances can he now return to your home. Be one step ahead of the game so to speak.

OP, you are so kind but you have been conditioned for decades to be an obedient self sacrificing daughter, even to the extend of sacrificing your husband and child.
I know that is hard to read but it reads from your posts as the truth.
This is what conditioning does.

NOW you have woken a bit from the FOG.
You cannot fix your brother.
Save yourself, your daughter, your husband and your family.

You want to believe his not realising his huge negative impact on your family?
What difference does his intentions make?
The effects on your family are catastrophic.

You cannot allow him through your door again.
@RedRoss86 has written well about exactly what life is like trying to help some family.
I have never ever heard of a brother offering up themselves and their family on the sacrificial alter of the mental health of a sister.

I have heard of several sisters being manipulated into doing it, until they mostly woke up decades down the line.

Having pulled bzck from them, these men all just got on with it as did the man in my family when his relentless neediness meant his sister had enough of him.

Blaming others, never appreciating all that was done for him, guilting her for everything she had worked and achieved, and never taking responsibility for his shit selfish choices in life that had left him alone.

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions and save yourself.

Your daughter deserves better than to be collateral damage to your brother.

Take this new information and use it to finally protect your daughter in her own home.

You deserve so much better than her blaming you in a few years for not prioritising her during her life.

Be very careful that she doesn't feel anger as she reaches adulthood for this man felt like your priority instead of her, your daughter.

Step away while you can.

OP, a series of people (your brother, your parents, the people you encounter at the hospital) are treating you as if you're nothing more than the solution to their problems. But you're real, with problems of your own you can't simply dump on someone else, because for you, there isn't anyone. You're the one others rely on, regardless of the limits on your bandwidth and the impact on you, your DH and DD. It's good that you've indicated that you are no longer the end of the line and the ultimate resource for others, above and beyond what you are able to give.

If you think about it, all of these other parties - your brother, your parents, the NHS - have much, much bigger problems than you can possibly cope with. It would be hard enough if your husband and daughter weren't struggling and your own health was good. But as it is, it's impossible. You can't take on and make up for everything that's gone wrong since you and your brother were little and continuing to try will hurt you without helping him.

Anp here . Not mental health nurse but due to works remote location look after a lot of mental health presentations . Totally agree with your post.

OP, I am in awe of how strong you're being and I'm adding my voice to your cheer squad. Do not let him back into your house. Your DD needs to feel safe, both physically and emotionally. Stand firm. You've got this.

Absolutely this. I’m not convinced he disclosed so that he could get someone to intervene and remove him. I think he was possibly hoping that OP would have a word with DD and take the study room off her. But I’m no expert.

My grandmother had depression for years. She attended her appointments and engaged positively with what the psychiatrist suggested re. activities and routines. She took her meds. She did everything possible to help herself.

OP’s brother is entitled, selfish and unpleasant. He has not engaged meaningfully with support. He has the phone numbers of the crisis team. So why on earth is he walking into his sister’s bedroom when he knows she will be in bed and demanding her attention? That’s what a three year old does.

Something went badly wrong in his childhood. The parents’ response is very suggestive - DF wants to take no responsibility at all and DM does not stand up to him. They dump it all on OP.

OP, you know he can never come back to yours. Your DD must be safe and you and DH need peace.

I have a 54 year old DB. I would not tolerate behaviour like this.

I'm so angry at that A&E doctor. Presumably she wasn't a mental health specialist?

Hang in there. You continuing to refuse to take him will force them to have to do something, surely?

And you have to refuse. If he turns up in a taxi you do not let him in. If he puts a foot in the door or sits on the step and starts crying you have to call the police. Not easy to do, I know, but the alternative - letting him in - is worse.

He's tried everything to move himself into your house permanently and it hasn't worked so he's seeing your DD as the barrier to this and made a threat against her. Please don't underestimate the threat. In his mind, if she's not there, he could stay. Forever.

agree with this too.

I also recommend the website Out Of The Fog (OOTF), the FOG stands for the fear, obligation and guilt that family members feel when dealing with loved ones who are mentally unbalanced or have personality disorders. There is a chat forum and everyone will understand exactly what you are feeling

sending hugs my lovely, at least he won’t be under your roof again and that’s something at least

Hi OP I'm new to this thread and have only read your posts, not the full thread. I also have a brother with depression and I wholly understand the guilt and simultaneous rage, it is exhausting!
From what you've said on the thread, it seems like this is a turning point for you and you are starting to understand the dynamics of the relationship much more clearly. I just wanted to say that you sound incredibly strong and kind, and that I hope you can now start to meet your own needs, focus on your own health and well-being.
Your daughter sounds amazing as well, so good on you for raising her to be such an impressive young woman. Best of luck to you, and your family.

Your brother is very clearly autistic
How on earth have none of these professionals spotted it ..I suppose it's easier to label him with a personality disorder than actually assess him for autism
This is exactly how my son will be when he's 50 and I'm dead
But I intend to get him in to supported living by then .
Your parents have failed him massively,not getting him support.
It's a Social worker he needs ,a disability social worker,and a diagnosis of autism..he could have carers coming in to his flat to help him with what he is not coping with .
Ring social services and get a social worker involved

Just read all your replies and many others, what a nightmare! You have certainly gone over and above over the years I hope the family narrative wasn't that you "gave" your brother chicken pox and someone set off this chain of events thus adding to your feelings of responsibility for him? It's a highly contagious disease which was always going to pass between siblings.

I know someone whose child was never the same after the chicken pox vaccine led to an encephalitis so wondered if something similar may have happened to your brother, although the periods of normality seem to make that less likely.

Glad you have the support here and irl to be kind and loving but firm and unyielding going forward. Hope you can get some sleep soon and be able to cope a bit better as a result.