Assisted Dying Bill tomorrow.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I really hope this goes ahead.

I'm from a family who die from cancer. It's a genetic thing. Over the years I've watched numerous loved ones die from this cruel and ravaging disease. It has taken a massive toll on us. From PTSD to immense guilt, complicated grief and fear of the future.

Not all of my family would have accessed Assisted Dying, but I know some did want it and requested it in the weeks / days leading to their death. They should have had the option of shortening their suffering. Having witnessed what they went through, I want that option for myself.

I want it for my mother. For the past 20 years she has told me when she wants out and how I will have to help her achieve it. I don't want to. She apologises for putting it on me. She shouldn't have to.

No one will be saved if this Bill is stopped, but fear and suffering will be reduced.

We don't know, because this wasn't outlined in the bill.
We don't even know if this will be an NHS or private process.

Streeting is not opposing from a religious viewpoint - he has previously supported an earlier assisted dying bill.

His concerns are "choice" in the context of the dreadful social care situation and the near lack of palliative care for those who need it (often not available until the last days of life).

The two things are completely different. The death penalty is about punishment. Allowing people facing a horrible drawn out death to choose to die in peace is entirely unrelated.

Both state killings, identical

So it will be suggested to them on diagnosis? Or do they have to specifically ask? Quite a difference. Which is it?

One way to get the health and social care bill down I suppose!

At least healthcare professionals will have to opt in wrt working. No appetite for that within my profession at this moment.

I wonder what the Lords will do with it

It's two shit situations.

People suffering from dying

Or

People coerced into dying

I think the latter is worse

@ohdelay why do you want people to suffer when they don't wish to?

I do hope we are told which healthcare professionals are prepared to do this so we can avoid them

I'm absolutely horrified at the vote and I'm quite surprised too. Genuinely thought that MPs would see how this has worked in other countries and realised that the Bill is shockingly inadequate.

There’s an awful lot of clarification needed then. One thing I know is that locally to me places in hospices are really really hard to get , and care at home is not of the same standard as hospice care. Will there be some people who feel they have no choice because their preferred option isn’t available. There needs to be more funding for hospices and palliative care at home alongside assisted dying so that it stays an equal choice and not something that is just an option to end things sooner because the care the patient really wants isn’t available

Look at Canada for slippery slopes!

Canada has a different system, their laws have been amended by their Supreme Court. Ours would need to be a new law going through parliament and given that this did not pass with a huge majority, I don't think it's a given that MPs would vote for that.

Oregon has had it for ~30 years with no slippery slope. The changes to the act have introduced an exception to the mandatory waiting period (15 days) if the patient is not expected to live for those 15 days. And they've made it so you no longer have to be a resident in Oregon. But that's it, no creeping change in eligibility or anything like that. They have the same eligibility that is being proposed here (over 18, capable of making the decision, <6 months to live).

I don't, I also want the death penalty for child murderers. I don't understand how we said yes to the one and not the other though. Logic says it's a yes to both or no to both.

I am not picking on this comment especially but I think it sums up what this bill is about.

People are not used to death and have some belief that it should be a painless, dignified thing. I am against the bill, and the reasons for that are more philosophical than practical. I think we have become so distant from death that any suffering is seen as unacceptable. I am not even religious but I think the death of Christ on the cross was a story about many things but also about being accepting of death - and that it will also be quite shit and painful. History is littered with other examples of this.

What I think has also confused the picture is the prolonging of life unnecessarily, force feeding patients who no longer 'want' to eat, giving endless medications when quality of life has clearly gone. Even though it seems that therefore I would agree with assisted dying, I think this practice of keeping people alive is slightly different and it also comes down to the same issue - we cannot bear to see people suffer, at all, and seem to find it hard to accept they will die.

I think animals can teach us a lot about death. They know their 'time is up' and go off and curl in a corner on their own, yet we don't allow humans that dignity. I think it is really hard to legislate but it is not what is on this bill, it is not really assisted dying, it is just letting people die when their time is up.

And you don’t?

Clearly if you support this you’re in favour of killing off the disabled, the mentally ill, the vulnerable, because the terminally ill with 6 months to live will 100% not be the end of it.

Let’s hope you’re not one of those who goes on about how we shouldn’t have capital punishment because one miscarriage of justice is one too many if it’s cost someone their life, and yet you’re happy to concede that there are risks and people will fall victim to this. Well surely one coerced death is one too many.

Both state killings, identical

Whatever your views on assisted dying, it is simply completely nonsensical to say that the death penalty is "identical" to someone choosing to end their life.

How can you say that when millions of people will likely suffer before they die and a handful, it that will be coerced.

We can easily increase the prison terms for coercion if necessary, which I don't even think will need to happen, because most people in other countries have tried to stop their relatives going down the route of assisted dying because they want them to live. I refuse to believe that we are so evil in England and Wales that we are different from other countries.

I am not in my feelings over this and am speaking purely logically. Both are the state killing a citizen. The why doesn't matter, either the state can kill a citizen or it can't.

I totally understand that people are afraid that others may take that choice from an individual through being coerced to do so, so I'm glad safe guards are in place for them.

There are no safeguards that can prevent coercion. So by insisting that we allow you to die by suicide you are also condemning others to death.

A slow and painful death is awful. Being murdered or coerced into suicide is far, far worse.

It will be suggested to them in a - we can't afford to give you any care. But you can kill yourself if you prefer.

Where did you see an opt in?
The bill doesn’t give an opt out for doctors.

So is one person being killed on the road enough to stop everyone driving and if not, why not?

I had nightmares for weeks after seeing my Dad die from liver cancer. When organs start failing (especially the liver) they can pump you with all sorts of drugs but not many of them will work. My Dad was distressed, trying to get out of bed, screaming in agony - his final peace came in the last 12 hours when the palliative care consultant stepped in and added another drug to his syringe driver. No one should have to die like this. And he had a great palliative care team.

I am so thrilled that if I get cancer, I won't have to resort to stockpiling medication and my family have to deal with my suicide because there is NO WAY on this earth that I will die like my Dad did.

It's a sad society when the majority want to arrange legislation around those evil few who are likely to abuse it.

Not really. If you commit murder in a country where capital punishment exists, you are making a conscious choice to do something which may result in your death.

It is not an evil few who will abuse it. There will be a large scandal in a few years involving this just as happened with the Liverpool Pathway.