Assisted Dying Bill tomorrow.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I really hope this goes ahead.

I'm from a family who die from cancer. It's a genetic thing. Over the years I've watched numerous loved ones die from this cruel and ravaging disease. It has taken a massive toll on us. From PTSD to immense guilt, complicated grief and fear of the future.

Not all of my family would have accessed Assisted Dying, but I know some did want it and requested it in the weeks / days leading to their death. They should have had the option of shortening their suffering. Having witnessed what they went through, I want that option for myself.

I want it for my mother. For the past 20 years she has told me when she wants out and how I will have to help her achieve it. I don't want to. She apologises for putting it on me. She shouldn't have to.

No one will be saved if this Bill is stopped, but fear and suffering will be reduced.

I'm against it. Won't be long before its expanded to at any time for any reason.

I agree. I want laws decided on data and facts. Not passing public opinion. I want there to be impact assessments done of how this Bill would be likely to affect those who don’t want to use legal assisted dying as well as those who do. That’s the comparison group. This kind of information gathering hasn’t been done.

Multiple accounts of the failure of palliative care or unavoidable pain don't mean we have to accept laws which don’t safeguard those who use them and which could incredibly negatively affect those who don’t. This bill was only published on 11 Nov. That’s not enough time for proper thought and consultation on such a serious matter. There hasn’t been enough accompanying factual information for MPs to really know what they were voting for. This Bill was not a referendum on a principle of whether assisted dying is OK or isn’t, with loads of time afterwards for practical discussion and yet that’s how some in the pro lobby of MPs were positioning it.

The current law on assisted dying was not decided on data and facts. Like many things it has its roots in religious beliefs. It was also not decided in the current climate of medical advancements.

Rushed or not, this bill has much more data and facts and reasoning behind it than the existing law.

That’s not what I wrote, is it? You’ve tipped over into irrational now.

A few posters have been saying "commit" suicide in their posts. I just want to highlight that it is not an accepted term to use any more because it can imply a sin, criminal offence or act, and therefore can be stigmatising – of the person who has died, or of people who have been bereaved. It is considered more appropriate to say died by suicide or suicide death.
Sorry not necessarily relevant to debate here but I noticed it a few times so just thought I'd mention it.

Yes I think that is an important point. It’s knowing you don’t have to suffer-that the option is there to go at a time of choosing. It may help people bear things.

It’s a important point @Dulra
Because yes that Bill means suicide will now be seen as something good to do. Rather than a sin etc….

Quite the opposite from all the campaigning around suicide to try and stop it.
Or the idea that if someone died of suicide, they were selfish etc…. The ‘didn’t they think about the lived ones they left behind’ type of reaction.

It will be interesting to see how this Bill change attitude on suicide and whether suicide is a good thing or not.

I think I heard the stat that in one country only 1 in 3 choose to use them after acquiring them

Or perhaps people knowing they can go through supportive channels before they end their life will help prevent suicides.

This is just fearmongering, most of us want the right to choose and not to be nannied by people who always think they know better.

In countries where assisted dying is legal, like Belgium, the rates of suicide have risen.

regardless of what happens with this law we need better palliative care. The two are separate really

Why? Palliative care is a luxury and so you can pay for it privately. If you can't afford it, there's always assisted dying ...

Sorry, but I highly doubt you're giving me an unbiased factual view of causality between those two things.

That so naive

If you need 2 doctors and a decision from a high court judge, how long do you think this will take seen how crippled the NHS and the Justice system is?

There isn’t, in the terms we have atm, a quick solution to ‘oh I’m in too much pain, I want to use Assisted Suicide.’ And two days later it’s granted and done.

One of the issue I’ve had with the way it’s set up is that 6 months wont be enough to get through appointments with two different doctors and a judge. Well not unless you divert financial and physical ressources from the NHS and those who want to live (I’m thinking of palliative care here) as well as the Courts to create something specifically for it.
And im not sure im happy to divert ressources from the NHS or the Courts tbh. Not in the state they currently are.

That’s true.
Because suicide is not seen as ‘bad and selfish’ anymore. And if it’s ok to get suicide through a doctor, surely that will ok too if you do it yourself right?

They found the same thing in the Netherland.

I doubt your simplistic notion of causality is what they found in the Netherlands.

From a study by Prof David Paton:

'1 There is strong evidence that legalisation of assisted suicide leads to a significant increase in the total
(assisted and unassisted suicides) suicide rate.
5.2 There is some evidence that legalisation of assisted suicide leads to an increase in the rate of unassisted
suicides.
5.3 Increases in suicides associated with the legalisation of assisted suicide are observed more strongly
amongst women than men.'

This isn't my opinion. There are plenty of other examples.

Well suicide was legalised in 1961 in the UK, regardless of whether you think that is right or wrong.

The vote today is just the beginning of a long debate.

Personally I hope a resolution can be found for those, for whom no further medical solutions are available and instead of waiting for their pained, diseased bodies to finally give in can be assisted to pass away without the fear of a distressing end.

This is not a bill to bump off old, disabled or mentally ill people. And every single word will be scrutinized.

He also caveats this by stating Posner's hypothesis that assisted suicide laws might reduce suicide rates.may not have been wrong.

That's what unbiased means. Not chucking things you've googled and skim read about to support your view.

And there aren't plenty of other examples because we're only just reaching a point at which people are interpreting the limited data on this.

And this wasn't a study on Belgium btw.

Decriminalised

Is the bill available for the public to read and see the data and facts only I haven’t seen anything.
General medical council website or something?
Id love to see it

I strongly agree with this.

I've never known of a person to say 'keep me alive until the end'. The few people I've known wanted to pass before because the pain was excruciating. Many more I've heard from others have said. they themselves. will never get over the end of their loved ones life because of how horrific it was.

I cannot believe this PP cares more about colleagues potential emotions than the dying person or their families.

All the facts and evidence from the inquiry into assisted dying/assisted suicide are available if you want to and look them up.

If you'd like to let me know what facts and data were available in 1961 in comparison I'd love to see it.

My father fought for life until the very end.