Assisted Dying Bill tomorrow.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I really hope this goes ahead.

I'm from a family who die from cancer. It's a genetic thing. Over the years I've watched numerous loved ones die from this cruel and ravaging disease. It has taken a massive toll on us. From PTSD to immense guilt, complicated grief and fear of the future.

Not all of my family would have accessed Assisted Dying, but I know some did want it and requested it in the weeks / days leading to their death. They should have had the option of shortening their suffering. Having witnessed what they went through, I want that option for myself.

I want it for my mother. For the past 20 years she has told me when she wants out and how I will have to help her achieve it. I don't want to. She apologises for putting it on me. She shouldn't have to.

No one will be saved if this Bill is stopped, but fear and suffering will be reduced.

I believe people who are capacitous should be able to make health decisions about planned and managed death
For disclose I work in NHS and have (unfortunately) seen individuals in pain and distress as a result of chronic illness and pain.My opinion is we should offer planned treatment to manage a chronic condition and end life
Obviously need checks and balance, assess capacity , and address any potential safeguarding queries

I really hope it goes through. We preach about dignity and respect in health and social care but sometimes we don't practice it.

Sadly it really comes down to money/budgets; we all know that.

It's not that simple OP. Your mum isn't going to be able to decide if and when you should assist her death. That's not what is being proposed.

A doctor, or most likely two doctors will have to sign off that the patient has a terminal, progressive condition with less than six months to live. Doctors have argued hat sometimes the time is impossible to predict.

It's very complicated.

I hope the bill passes. But this is the start, if it happens of legislation. Doctors will need to opt in, safeguarding for everyone legally will need lengthy discussions.

But it will take a while to be available as a choice and it won't be straightforward, nor should it.

I 100% support this bill. It is dreadful that dying people might have to choose between going abroad to die or prolonged suffering at home.

I do not believe this Bill should go through. I fear that people will feel pressurised and is some cases will be under pressure to go through with this to relieve pressure on their family. What is even more worrying is that the MP proposing this Bill is already saying people are saying the safeguards are too strict - that was the regional news this evening. If this Bill is passed then I fear it will become more relaxed as time goes by.

Having just watched my dear beloved mother die from pancreatic cancer ten weeks after she was diagnosed, very unexpectedly, I support assisted dying.

Mum asked numerous times over the last few weeks for help. She said if she had a switch then she would switch it in her final days. She woke one morning having thought she'd passed away the night before when we were all with her, and was so distressed that her suffering wasn't over yet.

It was cruel and unnecessarily painful and I wish she hadn't had to go through it. She was wonderful and didn't deserve to suffer inf that way, it was all so incredibly unfair.

I'm concerned about this bill in many ways, and as a healthcare educator. I don’t want to see this go through. The first rule of healthcare to do no harm and I cannot ever imagine asking a colleague to go to the drugs press to take out some medication that is actually going to cause the death of a client. I think it would cause immense emotional and psychological distress to healthcare workers. Furthermore medical advances are happening all of the time and what’s the terminal disease now, may not always be so . Furthermore unexpected death within six months doesn’t always turn out to be that way which many of us who work in healthcare have witnessed. I’ve seen patients survive less time or more time. Death is never predictable. I think more money should be invested in a palliative care and it’s associated research to make people as comfortable and pain-free as possible with the best quality of life they can for the duration of their natural life. Also, I am worried that if the bill, with its current restrictions is introduced, that over time it will be extended and I’m very concerned that if it into areas such as mental health that it could be detrimental for many people and their families. This has been the experience of other countries, where the remit of the legislation has been extended over time. I do not make my points likely as I have cared for and witnessed many people suffering illness, and have done my utmost to ease their distress, with the best drugs, medical support and care strategies I know.

As an old and fragile person, whats really getting to me during this debate is that people like Streeting (I'm a member of the Labour Party, not having a go at the party in general) think I shouldnt die at a time and place that their religious principles dictate.

I want to die at the time and place that I choose. If you don't want assisted dying, don't have it. But please, have it in your heart to let me have it, if I choose.

I totally understand that people are afraid that others may take that choice from an individual through being coerced to do so, so I'm glad safe guards are in place for them.

But, surely, voting against the Bill is equivalent to also refusing my right to die when and where I want? Isn't that coercion of a sort, kind of?

I think this is an incredibly complex and emotional subject which the public hasn’t had enough opportunity to discuss before parliament began to legislate. That’s the problem with the private members bill system. I believe this is the wrong format for this subject to be handled in.

I would like to see the bill progress with an amendment calling for a royal commission or similar, eg. People’s assembly. When you look at how we did major social change in the past, there was always lengthy debate before it got anywhere near the statute book. I don’t believe this subject was at the forefront of people’s minds before Kim Leadbetter won the private members bill lottery and I think that is the fundamental flaw with this approach. We need to properly and respectfully debate this, take time and have all perspectives properly heard.

I was going to start a thread asking those people who oppose it - what are you opposing/what are the concerns?
I have heard many people say you wouldn’t let your pet suffer yet you have to watch your closest loved ones suffer. As human beings I don’t know why we can’t decide when we can die peacefully in a way that is least painful to all. People committing suicide choose to die but cause so much pain to those around them. This is a gentler way.

I wish with all my heart that we can have assisted dying in this country. It's true that end of life care and pain management should be so much better but we all know that isn't going to happen. This has always been stated as the preferable option whenever a vote came up but this care still isn't there. And why should it be either/or, why can't we have both?

@Sunnydays10 I’m not fundamentally opposed to assisted dying in principle so I may not be the kind of person you’re looking for an answer from. But I’ll give you my perspective. I’m worried about the sudden rush to legislate on an issue which hasn’t been at the forefront of public debate. I’m concerned that the private members bill system is not the appropriate way to introduce a wide ranging social change. I’d like to have a proper discussion before we legislate, rather than legislating in haste and then having lots of marginal cases being taken through the courts in deeply distressing circumstances to establish what the law actually means in practice. The way the law is drafted at the moment has various exclusions which should be more deeply considered. And so on …

Also, I do think that those who are fundamentally opposed on religious or other grounds might be able to come to terms with a change in the law more easily if we have a proper discussion about it before legislating. Just because we don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean we shouldn’t respect their right to be heard, and I think they should be properly heard.

As I understand it we basically used to have assisted dying due to the 'duel affect' rule. I think post Shipman doctors (understandably) are unwilling to go there anymore.
I also hope this bill goes through.

Thank you, I agree with you on the points you’ve risen completely

Really hope this doesn't get passed. Terrifying. And if you think governments around the world are starting to bring this in because they care so much about human suffering, then more fool you.

@Sunnydays10 thank you … I appreciate that. I think the fundamental thing is, we have to get this right. Nobody wants to spend their loved one’s last weeks and months fighting a court battle about what some badly worded legislation means. So I think we need to take time over this and make sure there is no ambiguity in the law. That needs a more thorough legislative process than a private members bill.

Totally agree with you op

I hope it goes through but I doubt it will

I fear that people will feel pressurised and is some cases will be under pressure to go through with this to relieve pressure on their family.

Do you have the same concerns around people signing advance directives, or turning down treatment? Those could be open to the same pressures but I don't think anyone thinks that removing the option for people to make advance decisions is the way to go.

It's not that simple OP. Your mum isn't going to be able to decide if and when you should assist her death. That's not what is being proposed.

I know, so does she. We want this Bill to progress so that she chooses the time and I don't have to help her and risk imprisonment.

The point here though is making someone suffer a painful and prolonged death with inadequate care is surely more 'harmful' then letting them slip away peaceful at a time of their choosing. I don't think the 'do no harm' approach really works in that scenario, they are dying anyway.. no amount of drugs or money is going to save them, it would be a kindness to let them go on their own terms.

The problem is, your solution, which involves research and investing money in palliative care.. it will NEVER happen, because there is no money to be made from it, it is so far down on the priority list and will never be improved IMO, I've seen 4 people die, and the level of care for all 4 has been different levels of diabolical, especially for the ones who have died at home, can't get anyone out, wrong medications sent, or no medications sent, incorrect information given, or information not shared correctly leading to mistakes being made or delays happening, families being put under immense pressure to care for their loved ones, with no real support from anywhere even though they are not equipped to deal with it, but feel it is their duty as most people would.

I know people are saying they may feel under pressure to die to not make their family suffer, but to be honest I don't see what is wrong with that, I wouldn't want to responsible for that burden and heartache, especially towards the very end where you are just an empty shell of the person you were and everyone is just counting down the days until you finally let go.

I'm in full agreement of it for people with a terminal diagnosis.

Honestly, you don't sound like any medical professional I have ever come across. You sound desperate naïve. You think that new advances in medicine could help someone who has less than six months to live?? Bollocks. You think that staff would rather watch someone die in pain than help them pass with dignity and peace? Nope. And please don't even pretend to believe that there is any sort of palliative care that could enure everyone dies pain free and at peace. There isn't.
Let people die when they choose. I could jump off a bridge tonight if that is my choice. Every one has that choice apart from the those too vulnerable to do it themselves. Disability discrimination much??

Drs already make decisions every day to remove treatment from patients knowing they will die. This way the patient is giving consent and it is their choice when they want to go.

I really hope this bill goes through and I would want amendments in time. I wouldn't want to be living with locked in syndrome for example, and yet under the proposed legislation this would not be a reason for assisted dying as you would most likely be living for more than 6 months.

The first rule of healthcare to do no harm and I cannot ever imagine asking a colleague to go to the drugs press to take out some medication that is actually going to cause the death of a client. I think it would cause immense emotional and psychological distress to healthcare workers.

What harm comes from a terminally ill person chosing to end their suffering? HCPs will not be compelled to be part of Assisted Dying.

Furthermore, medical advances are happening all of the time and what’s the terminal disease now, may not always be so.

This Bill is pretty tight around Terminal Illness. While I am in awe of medical advances, there is no cure for end stage cancer. Or MND. Or most other deaths covered by this Bill.

I find your comment as a health educator disturbing.
If you are so up to date, surely you have witnessed how lacking palliative care is !
As a nurse working with EOLC I am certain that assisted dying is the way forward for many people who are unable to end their own suffering !