Where is everyone going to charge their electric vehicle?

[TeapotCollection]

On the way to work I saw a car on charge, parked on the road with the cable trailing over the footpath. I’d be worried about someone tripping over it, or someone stealing the cable! But then I thought what are people meant to do?

Hadn’t thought about it before but this just isn’t going to work is it?

💯 I've been driving purely electric for 8 years. My decision was based on purely challenging my mindset and petrol-head partner who was dissing my decision at the time. Guess what? He's been driving purely electric electric for 2 years now and said he's never ever going back! The best thing is though, that we should be investing in hydrogen instead. It's shortsighted to invest in electric. That's my next project in the quest to sustainability

You would have thought so but the cost of the London Underground just goes up and up, I believe it is the most expensive metro in the world now.

Yes, thats exactly what I meant. That progress stopped because the focus moved to ev. But we coukd have kept improving ice otherwise.

The whole EV situation really calls into question the viability of the concept of personal transport as we move into the future. We aren't that many generations from a time when the vast majority of the population could not afford to own their own transport - let alone the prospect of leaving unused on their land for 90% of the time.

On range, if an EV has a range of say 200 miles but by 2035 will have gone to 300 or more, why would i buy one now????

thats the issue that i eluded too, 1st gen tech is usually shite.

I was in Derriford Hospital today, 1000 plus staff cars, parked outside, £ millions to install a charger for even 50% of them.

My local Tesco has 4 charging stations, usually have 2 or 3 cars in them, you'd need around 100 if most people drove EVs, they could only put in 4 because the supply cable wasn't big enough.

Have we even the generating capacity for all of this nonsense?

As someone mentioned earlier, yes, there is easily enough generation capacity for “all of this nonsense”.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

On range, if an EV has a range of say 200 miles

Until you need the heater.

You don’t need to charge your ev at home, though, just as you don’t currently refuel your car at home. I’m at the service station right now, the car began charging while I bought a drink, and in 5 more mins I’ll be on my way.

In the UK are commercial chargers really charging more for electricity than petrol? It’s considerably cheaper here by the km for my car. That will prob change as the profit motive drives prices up, but for now I am saving a lot against petrol.

Those who drive for a living presumably stop for fuel during the work day and could do the same with an ev, as long as employers let them factor in the extra 15 mins, which of course is not guaranteed in these grasping times.

The vehicle cost is a real issue. My hope is that ev prices go down as more are sold, and that in the meantime those with a low budget can continue to buy secondhand.

Our car has a range of 500-550km in summer. It drops a bit in winter, but we live where it’s -10 a lot and snow and the Range is still 400+km in those conditions with heater on full.
Obviously better if not quite as cold or just city driving. If you’re trying to race somewhere over 400km without stoppping when It’s snowing and cold then your bonkers.

In the UK are commercial chargers really charging more for electricity than petrol?

Charging at a public lamppost costs around 14p per mile, but takes 8 to 10 hours to fully charge the battery.

Charging en route at rapid public chargers costs around 18p per mile.

The average diesel car costs around 12.5p per mile and the average petrol car costs around 14.5p per mile.

Yes but people had more amenities within walking distance, worked and shopped and had entertainment within a short walk or bus journey. We had a World leading train network for longer distances. When cars came along, all that changed and now people NEED a car as the train network was ripped up, buses don't go places where people want to go and local amenities are now on out of town sites with poor bus routes.

@taxguru I agree. For example 20 years ago our small village had a school, butcher, green grocer, hardware store. Milkman delivered all diary items, potato delivery in sacks by farmers. Now all of those are gone. So we have to drive as all of those are too far to walk and all on dangerous fast roads with no paths.
Public transport is also a long walk (about 30mins to nearest bus stop, down hill, so all uphill on return), and buses are very infrequent. Nothing after 6pm, nothing after 12 Saturday, nothing at all on Sunday.

To be honest, we should be making walking the default for short trips when there are nearby supermarkets / business parks. It would reduce traffic and eventually save the NHS money.

So we are reliant on wind farms not yet built and using "smart switching" which means if demand is large, your car wont get charged... that'll be great when you're about to jump in the car for that urgent trip.

Its nonsense because the planet isn't going to be saved by switching to a mass transport mode that is at best is only slightly better than ICE cars when taking into account energy generation and battery manufacture.

• EV emits the least CO2 but have higher NOx and N 2O emissions due to fossil-fuel-based electricity.
• EV has significantly higher SOx and PM10 emissions, highlighting the need for improved emission control and renewable energy.

Only works if you're in walking distance of the supermarket or business park! And of course, if there is a suitable walking route, i.e. safe pavement, lighting, etc. When your nearest or chosen supermarket or business park is literally miles away, you're really not going to walk.

As I'm self employed, I purposely found an office to rent within walking distance of my home and have walked virtually every day for the last 20 years, as it's only a mile from home on a decent enough public footpath, but that's only possible because I can vary my hours to "commute" earlier/later in the day in daylight as there's no street lighting. I was lucky to be able to do that, both in terms of "choosing" a work place close enough to home and choosing working hours to walk in daylight. The vast majority of people have to take whatever jobs they can get and don't have such luxury!

Ultimately, the planet will not be saved by these measures, something much more radical such as global adoption of nuclear energy or geo engineering will be required.

tax but a lot of people could walk and don't. I walk further to work than some colleagues. Same goes for our town centre. It's 1m away and neigbours drive it. That mentality needs to change.

Exactly. Tracey the cleaner, Yvonne the carer, and Matt the TA buy old cars for about £2k and drive them til they are on their last legs. They’re being completely ignored in this conversation but, crucially, they’re the reason EVs can never take off in the UK.

Yes, the EV plans are dreamt up by the wealthy who frankly have no idea how most people live, they come out with shite like "oh lets give a £600 grant for an EV charger.... " FFS people don't all have off street parking.

Its the same with heat pumps, no clue.

Its not just those on low wages that drive older cars either, even if you earn over £30k pa, a newer car is often out of the question when 1/2 your net salary goes on rent or mortgage.

the average age of cars in the UK has gone from 6 years in 2003 to 10 years in 2023...

Yep I agree. I earn a good wage but a late life divorce meant taking on a largish mortgage in my fifties and I am helping DS out a bit financially while he’s at uni. I can afford my little car as I own it outright and it doesn’t cost me much to run. I simply don’t have a spare few hundred a month to buy an EV even if it did have somewhere to charge it.

Yep, a lot of criticism of EV's comes from people who simply can't afford to buy one.

That's probably because cars today are better built and are lasting longer.

Back in the old days cars would rust to pieces within 10 years. These days its rare to see rust on a car.

Your experiences aren't usual.

I've been running cars for 40 years also and had quite different experiences.

If you compare something like a Telsa against running an ICE Audi or a BMW which is the kind of car you would expect it to replace there is literally no comparison.

I just scrapped a Ford Focus at 10 years because two of the fuel injectors failed (after I previously replaced 2). I would say as a car it was reasonably reliable but no where near as reliable as an electric. The only good news about it was that the parts were cheap. But the labour costs (and in some cases even finding someone to do the job of a repair) were horrendous. Getting someone to do major work on cars these days that is not standard replacement like battery/brakes etc is actually quite hard.

Electric cars don't even wear brakes hard because of the regenerative braking and of course oil changes are not necessary.

Our old car was a corsa. We bought it at 10 years old, for €4000 still ( no cheap cars here). We owned it 5 years, so by the end it was a 15 year old rust bucket. It was terribly expensive to keep repairing. The insurance was third party only but cost more than we pay now on new electric.
The axel rusted out and had to be fully replaced at MOT. The MOT used to cost us at least €400+ Every year ( not including the €1000+ axle year). Petrol cost us around €150 a month v €15 now in electric. Cost of tire changes twice a year ( winter to summer and back is compulsory here)
The EV now is fixed monthly price, includes all Mot, insurance, tire changes, electric updates. We only pay to charge ontop. Our annual costs of leasing to own are the same as keeping the 15 year old rust bucket on the road.

I've never owned a BWM or similar so not sure why you've mentioned that! I've always owned "basic" cars, first being an Allegro, then a Maestro, a couple of Peugeots, a few Citroens, a Rover, a Proton(!), a couple of Renaults. None have caused me any significant problems with servicing, repairs nor breakdowns. The only one that did have "issues" was a modern Renault where water ingress knackered some of the electrics! Ironic really, that it was electronics rather than anything mechanical.

As for you mentioning an oil change - that's one of the quickest, simplest and cheapest things to have done. Any garage can do that, even Halfords or Kwik Fit, so not sure why you think it's some kind of big problem. Even lots of private individuals manage to change their own oil or get a friend/relative to do it!