Where is everyone going to charge their electric vehicle?

[TeapotCollection]

On the way to work I saw a car on charge, parked on the road with the cable trailing over the footpath. I’d be worried about someone tripping over it, or someone stealing the cable! But then I thought what are people meant to do?

Hadn’t thought about it before but this just isn’t going to work is it?

Are Northern working class terrace streets specifically different from London/ Bath/ Oxford /Brighton middle class terrace streets?

The southern houses probably cost four times as much but they're identical in layout and the parking limitations are the same. It's not a class thing.

I applied to put a drive in so I could update my car. Highways approved it but the local residents association decided that they'd veto it as I am in a conservation area. I've just circled my house for 20mins to find a space to park and been shouted at by a neighbour (who has a fecking driveway but curiously isn't using it) because I was on the side of a road for a space and he was indicating across the road to take it. We live near a hospital and frankly if they are going to charge for parking so patients and families have to take our spots, I think houses along the road should be allowed driveways. It's become more important with the electric push because no one wants to have to rely on a charger in a city centre.

So why is the apparent proliferation of on street chargers only in the wealthier/middle class streets and virtually none in northern working class streets?

From comments on here, that seems to be the situation, but no one seems to be able to explain. Perhaps it's the same problem of "posher" areas having more money spent on infrastructure and local services whereas typical Northern working class towns are being left to rot??

From what I heard on R4 last week its a chicken and egg scenario; councils won't spend if there isn't a need and people won't buy if there isn't infrastructure.

In old fashioned politics - you know the sort that didn't worry about pronouns - this would have been the archetypal definition of what a government should be doing.

However, the UK just doesn't do infrastructure. If it is unable to build a railway line - which lets face it, at 200+ years of history is hardly the fucking moon landings - then anything more challenging just isn't going to happen.

You can spend a lot of time analysing the reasons "why", but at the end of the day they always seem to boil down to there never seems to be enough money for all the snouts that flock to the trough.

I'll be really interested to see how this all works. I live in a town just outside the M25 in an apartment block and we currently have no charging points and don't even have enough bays for each apartment to have a parking space. There are no charging points out on the street outside either and again, not enough bays for all the cars that need to park. When I have visitors, they have to park half a mile away in a car park, which also has no charging points. Our council is just about to go bankrupt, so not sure that they will be putting in a whole load of charging points any time soon.

I also wonder how the electricity grid will cope with all of this too.

I'm not against electric cars just to be clear, I'm just not yet clear on how it will all work. I guess people must have thought the same about petrol cars when they first came out too!

You're just throwing everything at this argument to see what sticks.

• EVs will always be very expensive.

Says who?

• Manufacturers have only recently started improving fuel efficiency and reducing emissions.

No, they've been working on emission since the early '70s, and fuel economy long before that.

• Engines can do 250,000 miles, EVs can't match that.

Yes, they can, and then some.

• We don't generate enough electricity for all these EVS.

The National Grid says different.

And, perhaps my favourite:

• You're lying about how much you paid to rent an EV during your holidays.

Hate on them all you want, but a vehicle propulsion system that is 50% more efficient than its predecessor, is quieter, safer and can theoretically be powered exclusively by renewable energy is not "slightly better".

I agree.
I wonder if the old petrol stations will end up being charging car parks with a park and ride system to and from them for home owners with no driveways...

God knows. I lived in a terraced house, you cannot drive outside them, we have a private car park 30 seconds walk away. I don't mind trying to save the planet, but I literally cannot charge an EV at mine. Neither can most people on our estate.

There are two public EV charging points where I live, they are in a supermarket car park.
The population is roughly 9000 and many of the houses only have on street parking. We would be fine as we have a driveway but probably around a third of the houses don’t.
There needs to be a huge upgrade in infrastructure before people will make that kind of outlay.

I don’t have charging facilities at my flat but there are several at a nearby supermarket and retail park which I could use. They are rarely busy and the car could easily charge while I’m meeting friends for coffee or doing my shopping. I also love the electric version of my car. But I can’t justify £200+ per month in lease costs for something that’ll sit in the car park unused most of the time apart from the odd journey once or twice a week. I work from home and do about 3k miles a year so an EV would be perfect for me. I just don’t have the money.

"Buy an EV and walk"

You really aren't selling this to me.

Yup. If I can't charge it at my house it's a no from me too.

Its the internet, you can always find a link to prove your POV... that NG article was all about "if we do this, we could do that and smart charging" which surely you know what that means?
But the most ridiculous thing was that "we will free up electricity generation as we use less fossil fuels" really? so oil & gas aren't used for anything else but to produce fuel?

On the costs of hiring an EV, well thats very simple, go onto to any car hire company and see how much cheaper an ICE is compared to a Tesla... its not rocket science.
I never said that pp was lying, maybe they had a one off promotion etc ?

EV prices haven't come down, in fact they'll go up as tariffs hit Chinese imports..... and subsidies have been reduced.... these are simple facts, trad companies are suffering, they have no room to cut prices.....

But the bottom line is people on or around average earnings cannot afford them and if it weren't for company cars, they'd hardly be any sales.

You can't support your arguments, so now you ve resorted to try and ridicule me..... says it all.

My central argument is that electric vehicles are simply far more energy efficient than anything with an ICE. That will never change, no matter how much tinkering they do. That's why they've been experimenting with them, and even using them for certain applications, such as milk floats, for over a hundred years, long before the environment was ever a consideration. Your assertions that EVs will never become affordable, and that the national grid will never be able accommodate a mass shift to EVs, are predictions, nothing more. Maybe you'll be proved right, maybe you won't, we'll just have to wait and see.

We've just had an extension, and the electrician put a car charging socket at the front, at the bottom of the drive.

There's a relatively new estate near me (building started in 2015) with 800 units (houses and flats). Not one has an allocated parking space and there are no charging points on the estate.

Do we think those residents will be hurrying to get electric cars?

As long as the cables are on your drive you are ok. It is illegal to have them running across a pavement.

Illegal or unlawful ?

Although the main punishment will be no cable in the morning as the local scrote patrol collect their taxes. (Doubtless prowling around in an EV, just for maximum irony).

IIRC R4 said it was illegal but many councils turning a blind eye...presumably until someone trips or gets hurt and sues...

If i had said "never" then you'd have a point but i ve not said that, i ve said at the moment/medium term.

Who knows in 30 or 40 years?

I ve not disputed efficiency of Electric motors, my argument is on chargeability, affordability and longevity.... i doubt very much that these Chinese manufacturers will be making battery packs/spares/sw upgrades 10years down the line & if we don't introduce tariffs on them, then our European manufacturers will very much struggle.

I live in a wealthier area with terraced streets. Our council won a bid to be in a trial scheme. I suspect they bothered to bid because at this stage evs are more expensive to buy but plenty of people here drive expensive cars. Perhaps the northern terrace has no cars to plug in so it wouldn't be worth bidding, or the people granting thought it wouldnt make the data on usage that brilliant for preparing a roll out. Or they just hate the north.

Lots of technology starts with the wealthy. They can try it all out, improve it. Then by the time it gets to me it will be alright. It's why I'm not stressed about it. I buy 18 year old cars, it's an age away til I actually own one of these evs.

i doubt very much that these Chinese manufacturers will be making battery packs/spares/sw upgrades 10years down the line

One solution to the range/charging problem would have been replaceable battery packs (of course).

"I've never owned a BWM or similar so not sure why you've mentioned that!"

Because it's not all about you. Clearly a lot of people do own these types of cars.

Replaceable battery packs would be great for a number of reasons.

But not least that if you could easily replace the battery, you could easily extend the range when new battery technology becomes available (we are on the cusp of this at the moment).

Unfortunately I suspect a lot of manufacturers will not offer range upgrades to existing vehicles but will use the extra capacity/improved charging speed as leverage to sell more cars.

My guess is though that the battery technologies coming in over the next decade will effectively end range anxiety and charge time objections by the vast majority of people, although there will always be people shouting that they NEED ICE because they drive 1000 miles a day and they cannot operate otherwise.

I doubt though whether they will end the cost objections by people who cannot charge on drive though.