Where is everyone going to charge their electric vehicle?

[TeapotCollection]

On the way to work I saw a car on charge, parked on the road with the cable trailing over the footpath. I’d be worried about someone tripping over it, or someone stealing the cable! But then I thought what are people meant to do?

Hadn’t thought about it before but this just isn’t going to work is it?

You could have a booking system...like they do for laundry rooms in Europe (most apartments don't have their own washing machine).

What I have seen in the flats my FIL lives in (not in the UK) is that they have a few paid fast-ish charging spots and then residents who want to have installed their own wall box chargers, or even just a power socket so they can plug in at their own space.

Yeah, that's a great idea - except we live in a busy city centre block with a high turnover of rentals and even some air BnB, and I just don't think that will work. It's one of the reasons why we don't have visitors spaces - people just parked their second cars there and left them for days and weeks. Also most of the spaces are outside, no wall to mount a plug (though mine is under cover and has a wall). The infrastructure just isn't there for many many UK flats.

Well people who live in blocks of flats may have to drive elsewhere to refuel their cars. Just like they do at the moment.
Just because some people can charge at home doesn’t mean everyone has to.
There are super fast chargers now that will charge your car in 15 minutes.

15mins would add about 100miles, i can add 500miles to my ICE car in about 5 mins.

But once again, you aren't dealing with affordability or why anyone would use their hard earned savings to buy an EV when they are supposed to be getting cheaper and have better range/chargeability.

On affordability, traditional ICE manufacturers are really struggling, look at Stellantis and VW?

Why is it a good idea to being so reliant on Chinese manufacturers?

Some previous posters are very lucky with the availability of charging facilities. In my village of around 8 thousand there are no EV chargers at all. And that includes the petrol station. In the next village over - again about 8k - there are 4 in a carpark, and none in the petrol station. We have a lot of terraced housing as we're an old mining village and as PP's have mentioned there is no guarantees you can even park outside your house.

Yup, same with our village, similar number of people but no public charging points at all.

Good point, our Parish of 5 villages plus several hamlets have no EV charging points, none planned as its not economical, 2 new estates built in recent years - no capacity for EV charging & all those cars driving to the nearest town to charge is certainly going to improve the local environment!!!

@Alexandra2001
I haven't bought an ev as they are not the right vehicle for me at the moment. I drive old cars and there aren't any old enough. Many people will be the same. Noone us making me buy one.

My friends who have bought evs have found the running costs, for them, offset the purchase price difference. They have also found that because manufacturers stopped developing their ice vehicles, if you want the most modern up to date car out there, it tends to be electric. Whereas the ice car has been running off production exactly the same for some time. They have also all gone for cars that were electric designs from the outset, not an ice car which the manufacturer is retroofitting an electric car into. They like the innovation.

I think European manufacturers are never going to compete with China on price due to labour cost differences, energy cost differences and getting hold of raw materials. They can only compete on quality, aftercare or innovation. But they seem to have not been very innovative with the whole just buy a fiat 500, but electric, just buy a mini, but electric.

We currently have three unknown vehicles taking up the only visitors bays in the block of flats where I live. One of which hasn’t moved for three months. They have been reported to the management company repeatedly but are still there. We also have regular visits from drug dealers and the odd stolen car dumped until it miraculously gets new number plates and is then on its way. And this is in a relatively decent part of my town. I can’t really see a booking system working for EV chargers.

In our modern EV 15 minutes adds 250 miles, on a super fast charger.

The point about bringing in the transition to EVs is it allows people to switch when they are ready. There’s no point changing cars if you don’t need to.

and it’s an unfortunate fact of life that we are reliant on the Chinese for many of the technologies we use in every day life.

2 new estates built in recent years - no capacity for EV charging...

Exactly. Where are the planning rules that force developers to ensure charging facilities for new homes?

Especially the ability to charge from your own home as it costs considerably less.

Charging at rapid public chargers costs an average of 18p per mile.
The average diesel car costs around 12.5p per mile and the average petrol car costs around 14.5p per mile.

Yes and BT and other ISPs are ripping out Chinese tech from their networks, personally, given the political uncertainty with the Chinese and their close allies Russia and Iran, its v stupid to be so reliant on China for Europes mass transport on which our economies rely do heavily on.

I wouldn't buy a Chinese EV, i try to avoid Chinese designed and manufactured goods as much as possible, not a fan of countries that use slave labour.... aren't we also granting asylum to millions of HK chinese to escape persecution.... but ok to boost their economy and buy an EV... "cause it'll save the world" BS!

Ethics hey!!!

If govt's weren't mandating dates to stop ICE car production & genuinely leaving it too market forces, then fair enough but they are not.

How many charging stations are rated 250kw and above?

We have one electric car with charging on our drive and one petrol car.

The electric car is my husband's and only works for us because of the ability to home charge. It's an absolute pain in the backside when we go away. We use it on trips as its bigger than my petrol car but the focus of the trip becomes finding a charger. E.g. this year we went to a rural but touristy part of England. Really hard to find a charger that was actually in service.

I live in a mixed area. My Council area has very few chargers and as PPs have said, if you live in a flat or a heavily parked road it pretty much rules EVs out. I don't think I could put up with the stress of having to find a charger. We don't have lamppost chargers - our Council, like many others, has to prioritise care services such as social care above charging points.

If the Government is truly committed to a green future it should make more charging points mandatory e.g. new housing developments requiring a charging point for each parking place. Most developments have 1 or 2 charging points which I expect get blocked by the resident CF who thinks it's their space.

I note an element of superiority amongst some posters with EVs - pparwntlt if people really wanted to do the right/green thing they'd stop moaning and just inconvenience themself. Apart from the privilege that pours out of such statements, it really shows a lack if understanding about how to motivate people.

The very first question is who will pay for that ?

If a lease can charge £9000 to cut the grass once a year, how much do you think they will charge for an EV point you might have a vague hope of using ?

As things stand, there are a huge number of disparate moving parts to this purported future, none of whom have shown any real enthusiasm for the project. And despite the flag waving on this thread, that ain't gonna change very soon.

We need to read about masses of workplaces, flats, shopping centres installing chargers at a rate of at least 50 a day.

Or people like myself with a drive that can take 3 cars fitting 2 chargers for hire 😀

E2A: It's hard not to feel that the current crop of EVs are the Betamax of the car world.

I think we all know the reality of the situation. Governments are pushing EVs for those for whom they're suitable, to try to gain traction. Part of that "push" is the official deadline for the banning of ICE cars. So, those who "can" successfully buy and charge an EV will do so, and currently being incentivised to do so.

The future reality will be that once there's a critical mass of EV's to the extent that there's a half decent charging system, and most people who can buy will have bought them, then the government of the day will keep deferring the "deadline" and ICE cars will continue to be produced for those for whom an EV is not a realistic option. The government may not know that yet, but when it gets closer to the deadline and the take up of EVs isn't high enough, and the charging problems haven't been resolved, they'll have no choice but to extend the deadlines. Of course, there won't be the same number of ICE cars available as lots of manufacturers are already reducing the ranges, but there WILL be a limited range of new ICE cars available, probably well into the 2030s towards 2040. You may not get an all singing, all dancing BMW petrol, but you'll almost certainly be able to get a Dacia manufactured somewhere in Eastern Europe! After all, there WILL still be countries who havn't banned ICE cars and who will still be manufacturing them, if not in Europe, maybe South America, etc so even if not still manufacturing in Europe, imports will still be available (unless the government ban imports too!).

I think that's why I am so relaxed about it. Everyone who finds an ev is the better option will get one and then the deadline will disappear, shift etc.

But I do genuinley believe that evs will improve and I do genuinely believe that they could put in more chargers if they wanted to. Which isn't the same as saying they will.

Yes, I have no doubt that in, say, 50 years, every vehicle will be electric, and there'll be lots of different charging options (some of which won't even have been thought about yet). But the speed of the current proposed changes is just entirely unrealistic and the ban dates simply won't happen and will be deferred and deferred again. It's all about "nudging" those who can, to move over to electric.

Agree @BitOutOfPractice . We have over 30 flats and not even enough parking spaces for each flat to have a bay each, let alone a visitor's bay!!! It is going to take some very creative thinking to work out electric charging where I live or with other similar developments - of which there are loads in my local town alone.

Yes, I have no doubt that in, say, 50 years, every vehicle will be electric,

In 50 years, cars will drive themselves and no one will give two shits how they are powered.

(In other news, nuclear fusion is just a few years away ...)

I highly doubt that. But luckily, I won't be here to see whether I'm right or wrong.

Maybe in some major cities where the roads can be "modernised" to accommodate them in a safe way, and maybe some major trunk roads and motorways. Places where you can rule that every vehicle on those routes has to be self-drive/automated.

But there's no way that we can afford to update every road and lane in the country to accommodate them in a safe way nor have a system where driverless cars share the road with older/driven cars. The costs of changing the road infrastructure and providing the necessary guaranteed/secure communications they'd need would bankrupt the country.

I can see it if we ever start building "new towns" again, or new motorways/toll roads, but there'd need to be restrictions as to which types of vehicles can use it, to either only driverless/automatic, or those alongside "driven" cars with built in automation for communications etc.

To make driverless vehicles work, they have to be able to communicate with each other. Reliance on cameras to look for other vehicles is too dangerous and too unreliable. They need to "talk" to each other so that they know exactly where other vehicles are in proximity to them, and know where other vehicles are changing speed or direction etc.

We're not even close to being there with railways at the moment, which are far simpler as they are in a protected/closed network and limited to tracks etc, far reduced risk of obstructions, pedestrians, etc., and far fewer in number so in theory a lot easier for them to automatically talk to each other when changing speed etc so in theory could run far closer together than the 2/3/4 mile apart they currently have to run. You could even use tech to get them to couple automatically on long runs and then split again closer to stations/junctions. But we're nowhere near doing any of that, so doing it for road vehicles is many decades away.

I think self driving vehicles will make inroads most of all in the places where it makes the most sense - rural areas with self driving cars going at low speeds (useful for those who can no longer drive or would like to go to the pub), and buses/lorries which travel along special bus-only/lorry-only lanes.

The Waymo experiments in the States suggest that it's possible for both self-driving and "normal" vehicles to share the same roads, at least under certain circumstances.

Many people don't like the idea of EVs, they'd go mad if Self Drive became the norm...

The tech isn't there and no signs it ever will be, in any affordable vehicle.

Which brings us full circle = Affordability/Chargeability of EVs.

R4 just had an interesting article on EV battery fires, their intensity and how manufacturers wash their hands of them when they happen, blaming mis-use & directing the the owner to their insurance company.

They are very rare, though one recently burnt down a house!

The GATEway Project, the trial with those pods tootling around the Greenwich Peninsula, finished in 2018.

I can't find any further use of such pods in public spaces since then.

Of course, the Automated Vehicles Act was passed this year. It places liability for accidents for accidents and driving offences involving fully autonomous vehicles on the manufacturers. How willing are they going to be to take on that liability?

One law firm site says this "However, the Act is light on detail and multiple regulations will need to be created to create a clear and robust landscape for liability allocation across the automated vehicle ecosystem." How soon do we think we will see those necessary regulations?

Many people don't like the idea of EVs, they'd go mad if Self Drive became the norm...

Really that's the heart of the problem. As a famous - and not wrong - author once noted about why things can suddenly advance when they seemed stuck : "Old people die."

Which while harsh and stark is undeniably true.

For myself I'd happily whizz around in an EV - the acceleration alone has to be experienced to be believed. And when they fit into my lifestyle, rather than the current reversed situation, I too will be happily extolling their virtues.

EV's do put a fair amount of load on your electric system when charging and put the system under load for an extended period, so if there is anything dodgy about the houses wiring it it is the kind of activity that is likely to expose it. And let's face it some people go for years or even decades without checking their wiring out or having it properly inspected.

I run a plug in hybrid and charge it off the standard house electrics. Although in theory the house electrics are more than up to the task (standard plugs are rated at 13A whereas charging uses 10A), I still don't charge it overnight or when I am out. If I got full electric I would want a wall box.