“Stop forcing your toddler to say sorry”

[Caarri]

Now I’ll lead with, I’ve not forced my toddler (3) to. Over time we’ve taught him how it’s good to say sorry

So my best example is when he pushes/shoves his younger brother (who’s nearly 1) or smacks him and younger brother cries. I’ve taught him it makes his younger brother sad when he does that and it hurts him. He now does say sorry I don’t think he obviously fully gets the word but he says sorry, gives him a hug and a kiss. So in my eyes I thought that’s good that he recognises it upset baby brother when I explained to him etc

i just seen this post. I’ll attach it with all the points

Instantly made me feel guilt that I’d been teaching my toddler sorry but I didn’t think it was a bad thing?!

thoughts??

From your post you are teaching your son empathy. If you were just getting him to react to an event by making say the word ‘sorry’ with no other context as to why then that would be confusing. Perhaps you could ask him why he think his brother is upset by his actions to reiterate the why.

We taught DT’s that when you do something wrong, particularly hurting someone, you apologise and actions have consequences ie - the toy you threw will be taken away. Their nursery used the same approach so it was good to have a consistent message.

My friend doesn’t make her kids apologise as they don’t feel “sorry”. So now they are quite unable to recognise consequences or understand how their behaviour affects others, it’s all about what soothes them rather than looking at how they might have behaved.

but sometimes sorry isn’t for you to feel, it’s for the other person. How awful for a little one be hit by another child and then the parent not even try to illicit a sorry because their own child doesn’t understand it. It needs to be taught.

I think the poster brings up a good point - not to you evidently - but I think some parents have their kids parroting apologies because the social situation demands it and it's clear the tot has no clue what they're apologising for! But I've done the same as you, we discuss it and then apologise but this is led by DS.

Tbf I think this is also what the writer is angling for, but it could be made a lot clearer!

I force apologies because it's the socially acceptable thing to do. Just like teaching your kid to say hello when grandma comes over. I do also explain why the apology is needed to help them learn empathy etc

I don't think you can avoid ever feeling shame in life, nor should you. Shame serves a really useful purpose and is often what motivates us to apologise. Obviously this doesn't mean you should go out of your way to 'shame' anyone, but I also think we shouldn't avoid everything that might have a small side-effect of shame.

The picture's wording is so badly written I couldn't take anyone posting it as an authority on anything. If this came from a "parenting expert" I'd like them to learn to read and write before posting advice. Ignore them OP.

I don't force apologies. I do 'force' "how can we fix this?" which is better I think. And I model apologies. DH was forced by a narc father to 'lose' by having to apologise and he really struggles.

DD always apologises and tried to make amends.

I think what makes a bigger impact than how the kid is instructed to say sorry is how quickly and dramatically parents intervene with all violent behaviour.

I think every push, kick, slap that is doled out in anger or done to hurt (rather than in play) means the adult should stop the game, remove the child from the area/game/toy, taken to a quiet space and told that they are absolutely not allowed to do that.

Then you can discuss why its not allowed and what they can do to put it right.

Too often, I think parents leap to the say sorry discussion but don't demonstrate to their kids how big of a deal hitting is, so they keep on doing it.

Agreed, why should we focus on the perpetrator feeling validated when they are in the wrong, but not the victim. Say sorry, it’s the kind thing to do. Not find an excuse for why they got hit.

I really wish in these scenarios that the child that got hit, hits back harder. There’s a lesson!

I know nothing about parenting toddlers, but I’ve noticed a distinct pattern of 20-somethings in customer-facing jobs being completely incapable of apologising on behalf of their employer even if something isn’t directly their personal responsibility. Which was basically the first thing I was trained to do in the old days, and nobody considered for five seconds that it might be personally conflicting to do that, it was just a given.

Children should be told to apologise, whether they understand that bashing someone over the head hurts or not. I don't think there's anything wrong in feeling shame sometimes either. How would society look if nobody ever felt shame? If you do something wrong or hurt someone (mentally or physically) most people expect an instant apology. They don't want you to go away and analyse your own feelings and then get back to them.

They are now 12 and 13. When do we stop the “they don’t understand” excuse? When they are 35?

Ignore social media on parenting in general. It gives such an unnuanced take it isn't helpful to anybody.

There are basically three approaches to sorry -

1. You can insist/force children to say sorry by not letting them move on until they have done it or on the extreme side, punishing them if they don't.
2. You can model and explain what sorry is for and prompt it, but not force the issue.
3. You can not expect it but try to model it and hope they pick it up on their own.

IMO, the graphic is trying to say don't do method #1.

But there is actually not a huge amount wrong with method #1. What method #1 will do is instill an automatic and habitual apology response, which can be useful, because if you want to be REALLY deep then honestly, how many adult "sorrys" are really meant?? But we have to do them anyway to grease the social wheels. It can help to get DC into the habit early. The downside of it is that it can teach kids that you say "sorry" and everything is undone, or that it is something you say but don't necessarily mean.

Method #2 is what you're doing, and IMO the best approach (it's what I do as well). If you want to split hairs you could claim that this is still not intrinsically motivated from a true sense of guilt or empathy - the problem with that is that very young children, completely developmentally appropriately, haven't actually developed this yet (in this context) so you're expecting quite a lot of them, and it can be helpful simply to encourage it as a habit even before they have developed an internal drive to want to put things right.

Will come back as my DC are trying to kill each other

"Forced apologies can leave kids feeling shame". But maybe if one of my kids hits the other I want them to feel a little shame? They should be a bit ashamed of that behaviour.

They are not held accountable for any action. Every feeling, emotion, has to be dissected and discussed at length, so they they never feel bad for a moment.

Its not real life and she has done them a disservice by ill preparing them if you ask me.

I agree especially about what is expected in terms of social skills. If you teach your kids to say please and thank you, teaching them to say sorry isn't much different. Basic social skills are a necessity to help along in life.

And yes a sense of shame can actually have value.

Possibly, but I’ve written plenty of customer comms and scripts that avoid that, it’s fairly standard.

The picture is poorly produced. Forced apologies force useless shame, not a sense of right and wrong, which is what you'd talking about.

General shame is bad. Forcing apologies without thought causes general shame and fear without actually empowering the child to make things better.

In this house, say DD spills something. Accidentally. She says, "oops" and goes to get a tea towel and stuff to clean it up. She gets to make good, avoid shame, feel good about sorting it out. Sense of responsibility, not shame. In another house she might get "you weren't being careful, now mummy has to clean up, silly girl, apologise". She feels shame. Useless shame.

Now there is a third house, with, "what do you say?" And she says "sorry" and you both go and clean up. I don't think OP is talking about the third house.