Thread 12 Starmer: From Prescott to Rayner, working class grit

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5203242-thread-11-starmer-will-that-phone-call-be-to-harris-or-to-trump-the-decidedly-superior-looking-cats-thread?page=40&reply=139989436

Anyway, let's move on from the distraction.

I was pleased about the outcome of the vote yesterday. Having seen my father endure a horrible time before he died I know that he would have welcomed being able to take matters into his own hand. (Although in reality, he wouldn't have qualified against the criteria that are being set).

I was impressed, though, by the way in which the whole thing was debated, and felt that this was 'proper' politics/government. Not just snidey baiting and shouting that we so often see.

Just for information, it wasn' t me either. And MN absolutely do not delete on demand, I've had requests for horrific racist posts to be deleted refused. I didn't see the deleted post, but it's really quite simple: think before you post.

Same here

Also the less attention they get the sooner they go away

@BIWI I totally agree about the way the debate went. Such an emotive subject and yet people discussed it with respect.

I am really sad the bill went through, but I totally understand someone who is terminally ill wanting to take charge of their own end.

I agree. As for deleting on request - I reported a post on a totally unrelated thread last night. Several posters also said they were appalled by it, but it hasn't been deleted.

Bystander syndrome!!

I am interested in details of voting patterns.

My MP voted against (Con), my ex Lab MP voted For. The Lab MP for my neighbouring constituency voted against (he is Muslim and I am not sure if that is a pattern for faith MPs? ).

I looked up known left wingers- all voted against : Corbyn, Long Bailey, Abbott. Rayner did too.

Jess Phillips voted For and Stephen Flynn didn't vote.

I'm pleased it was passed but I appreciate that people have different views. I wrote to my MP in support of it. He voted against but sent me a long and thoughtful reply explaining why.

Most Lib Dems voted against, including Ed Davey who, of course, has a severely disabled child. Tim Farron also voted against, apparently not based on his faith.

I also agree @BIWI . I mentioned upthread my Labour MP stated clearly and compassionately why she was going to vote No. A neighbouring constituency’s Labour MP has posted this morning his reasons for voting Yes. Politics for Grown Ups, at last. Mind you, my MP got some stick for her No vote and it’s a shame.

Richard Burgon voted against too.

My MP who voted against is Muslim and also towards the left and lost the Whip over the 2 child cap.

Our MP (Lib Dem) voted against it. But that's fine. I respect anyone who voted against it, like I would for those who voted for it. Apart from some truly appalling vox pop interviews over the last few days in the media, I did genuinely feel that people had thought long and hard about the bill and the issues that it raises, before voting.

More names:

Rosena Allin -Khan (a doctor) - against
MN favourite Duffield - against
Lee Anderson - For
Farage - against

Does anyone know why none of the SNP MPs voted? Is it because of devolved powers?

Just found answer to my own question. Yes it is.

As you were.

The bill only covers England and Wales

But that didn't stop the DUP voting against it

I am sure Rummly can take one for her team, if you only have insults to share then you will get burnt at some point.

I have said it on a different thread but I think Kim Leadbeater deserves a lot of praise on how she has handled this bill

Good morning, blimey I've missed loads!

I didn't report anything, just for the record.

Piggy, I was about to say that the Stephen Flynn said that as the Bill didn't effect Scotland, then he had no right to vote in it.

I think, having had time to consider this Bill, for me it is badly written, doesn't do what it sets out to do and is putting many more people at risk of coercion and harm.. I think I would have less personal objection to something like a living will which I can write now, with a solicitor and following 1:1 discussion with a GP, sessions with a therapist and various checks to make sure I'm of sound mind and not being coerced. It would be kept on your medical records and kick in in the last few weeks/ days of life, when death is fairly imminent, when pain relief is failing, and would allow the doctor, in agreement with the next of kin, to let the patient slip away. There would have to be safeguards around this, but somehow it feels kinder and more compassionate that what has been proposed in this Bill.

It was a strong outbreak of mature debate. Of course it does helpfully expose that most politicians (as do most people) can restrain themselves from yah boo suckery.

Which is why this thread generally works, because it resists the ner Nicky ner ner style of political comment.

My fairly Left MP voted against - she contributed to the debate about her severely disabled child who died at 27.

Kate Osborne, very left MP for Jarrow, voted for.

Oh, and I think that there are some words and phrases that are auto deleted, some seemingly innocuous like a particular item of footwear for PE.

I agree @ContactNightmare and that's why it's such a shame when a visitor pops along to try and stir things up. Different if people come in to discuss nicely.

Another non reporter here.

I completely agree with you @Llttledrummergirl. Your suggestion would work far better and would mean that those of us who fear dementia could prepare for the eventuality.

I think the difference in tone was a mixture of the subject matter & knowing that eyes were upon them.
I still believe most politicians get involved because they are interested in public service. It's just that the noisiest and not necessarily the deepest thinkers seek out attention - and play to a thirsty media.

Notonthestairs · Today 00:44
I haven't reported anyone. 🤷🏼‍♀️

BIWI · Today 08:17
And for the record, neither have I.

I'm Spartacus 😁 !

Personally if I have cause to report a post (which is rare because frankly I couldn't give two shits) then I just do it. One thing I find weird about a lot of MN posters is their need to claim they have reported someone in the thread. It's just a waste of limited debating space (we only get 1,000 posts per topic) and slightly attention seeking.

E2A: MNHQ may not delete posts on demand. However entire threads is another matter. Just post something that looks vaguely "outing" and they'll consign it to the bin.