Thread 12 Starmer: From Prescott to Rayner, working class grit

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5203242-thread-11-starmer-will-that-phone-call-be-to-harris-or-to-trump-the-decidedly-superior-looking-cats-thread?page=40&reply=139989436

Some info on procedure around PMBs:

www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/guides/private-members-bill-procedure-in-the-house-of-commons

The move to abolish capital punishment started with a PMB.

The criminal justice system is set up to arbitrate fair punishment for breaching the law.
Once the punishment is served there needs to be a way for criminals to reintegrate into society, or you end up with unintended consequences.
Let's say criminal A serves their sentence and gets a job afterwards, they can then pay tax, rent accommodation and integrate fully into law-abiding society.
Criminal B, denied a job after their sentence, has only two choices, a life on benefits or turning back to crime.

I'd rather live in a society where there is a way for criminals to rebuild their lives (obviously caveats for sex offenders, and fraudsters who must have ongoing limits on unsupervised activity).

I do not have any criminal record, even for traffic offences, but think that punishment needs to have a defined end or it's just unending cruelty.

My mum had a massive stroke, it should of killed her, she was on palliative care only and given a few weeks to live.
She suffered of that there is of no doubt and maybe she would have been given the choice to end her life, i dont know if she would have taken it, i do suspect though that it would have led to huge argument between us children.

However the day before she died, i couldn't help it, i broke down and begged her not to die, she raised her hand and wiped my tears away, i was her little kid again, it was a wonderful moment for both of us.

A relative recently died of cancer, they had a horrible death, no access to Hospice care for many weeks & when it was available, it was 130 miles away.

I'm conflicted about this 'bill.

@Llttledrummergirl I'm sorry you're upset but there will definitely be amendments both at the committee stage and in the Lords. This change will not happen overnight - probably around 3 years. At the end of the committee stage MPs have to decide whether to vote it into law. This us only the first step.

Palliative care is great if available but it has its limits and sometimes a pain free death is not possible as it wasn't for my FIL

Rayner and Lammy also voted against the Bill.

Well said.

Full vote breakdown

https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/1877

A bit like Braverman and migrants and immigrants.

Too much party before people and attention seeking narratives imo.

I was very much for debating the assisted dying bill. But very many good pints are being raised that are changing my belief that it could be a good thing to it could be good but there's too many variables and posts it lies for it to be bad for it to be a good thing to go ahead. If that makes sense?

People really do seem to think that a right to free speech is a right to be listened to. It isn't.

👏👏👏

I've been trying to find a way to explain how I feel and that's perfectly put.

I've also been saying but not succinctly I feel that people feel their right to free speech means a right to be agreed with as well as listened to.

And a right to be believed, validated etc.

It goes back to the belief that "it's MY truth" makes it "THE truth".

We've lost so much nuance.

What happens next to the bill on assisted dying?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7n9re4430o

I’m surprised and delighted the bill has gone through. There’s a long way to go before it becomes law and there will doubtless be many amendments along the way.

I am glad the bill has gone through. It is possible to do assisted dying well and sensibly, there are countries where it is done well. My grandmother had an assisted death. The alternative would have been horrific.

Tbh I’m a little surprised the bill passed, I’m another who is very conflicted & can see both sides & how people can have very strong reasons for being against or in favour, it’s an extremely emotive subject.

The Bill as is short on detail. As with all PMBs there hasnt been an impact assessment. Dominic Grieve described it as a skeleton bill.

I appreciate that those in favour believe the as yet undrafted safeguards will be sufficient and workable.

But it is worth bearing in mind any drafting changes will only reflect the quality of the original instructions from the committee.

Frankly until you have read those safeguards nobody can authoritatively state that there will be suitable protections in place.

And that is before we consider how the legislation might be challenged and adapted, be that in court or by future governments.

However, I appreciate that I might be coming at it from a particular angle as a carer. It is very difficult for me to trust that Parliament and future Parliaments will act in the best interests of my child.

I'd be only to happy to tell Andrea Jenkyns to her face exactly what I think of her.

On a different note I quite enjoy the now regular ploppers and their dismissive goady posts even if I cant be arsed to respond.
I have no idea why anyone would bother to read these threads whilst simultaneously being so contemptuous of them.
These threads are just a dozen or so people swapping thoughts. I can't think what we have done to deserve the attention.

Andrea Jenkyns was ERG Co Chair with Steve Baker. I dont hold any of the Brexiteers in particularly high regard and I recall how they acted against Theresa May (May herself doesnt exactly get a free pass either - citizens of nowhere my arse). I certainly don't think Jenkyns voting record is a mixed bag.

I do find it funny when derxa goes all prim on us

I saw the headline abour Haigh last night and did wonder who would pop up

I have a strong suspicion that when it is all signed off, we will discover a couple of years later than absolutely nobody will have been able to take advantage of it as the criteria will be so narrow.

It will be (yet) another right we can't exercise.

🤣
As you might know I never name change so I don’t plop anonymously. I don’t know what to think about LH

I didn't think it would be you

It has at least led DH and I to discuss our wishes. We've both had patents suffer horrendously and wish they'd had the option to end it even a few weeks earlier, although thr current bill wouldn't apply to most of the 9 years MIL suffered. In the end FIL refused treatment for sepsis after yet another infection, he had cancer that had spread to his bones and couldn't tolerate any painkillers, and died a few days later so I suppose we know what decision he would have made. I don't know what decision MIL(severe stroke, heart failure, kidney failure) and dad ( arthritis, osteoporosis and stage 4 heart failure chronic pain for several years not fully releived by synthetic opiods/oramorph) would have made towards the end when even morphine wasn't relieving their pain and distress but I would have liked them to have the choice. But I can see the concerns that other people have. It's so hard, there is no right decision for everyone.

You do talk a lot of shite, don't you 😅

passes the loo roll