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Original poster

Why are a tiny number of rich farmers dominating the news cycle?

359 replies

InvisibleRadiator · 19/11/2024 23:00

I've been reading around this inheritance tax issue, and the more I read the more I agree with government policy!

For starters the government thinks this will only affect the 500 richest farms and some think this could be as low as 100 farms!
x.com/DanNeidle/status/1852064433738256394

How on earth have such a rich elite managed to whip everyone up into such a frenzy, making it sound like poor old farmer Giles's kids are going to have to sell the family farm when he dies.
The following article explains how when taking into account the IHT property exemption, a married farming couple would not pay IHT unless their assets exceeded £3 million!
www.independent.co.uk/news/business/inheritance-tax-farmers-protest-maths-b2649181.html

And there are so many concessions such as having 10 years to pay, and being half the rate most others pay! And there are many ways to legally reduce the impact of the tax.

It's clear that wealthy investors have been pushing up land prices, and apparently farmers are involved in less than half the land sales now, when compared to 15 years ago.

And now this tiny band of super rich are trying to plead poverty? I don't believe a word of it.

This final article puts it far more eloquently than I ever could.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/17/farmers-have-hoarded-land-for-too-long-inheritance-tax-will-bring-new-life-to-rural-britain

Good on Labour for standing up for the average person and trying to claw back a tiny portion of generations of inherited wealth for our public services!

OP posts:
GavlarShmavlar · 21/11/2024 08:30

Most of the farmers found us are chomping at the bit to sell their land to greedy building companies so they can knock up new builds and totally destroy the village. Forgive me if I'm not madly sympathetic to their cause.

GeneralPeter · 21/11/2024 08:42

WomanFromTheNorth · 19/11/2024 23:35

It's always the same. You can take away mental health services, libraries, social care - all the things that disproportionately affect people living in poverty; you can see the use of food banks and homelessness go through the roof- nobody bats an eyelid. But come for the privileged and they all start to protest - and, more importantly, the media cover it. It sickens me.

But the tax break for farmers is currently funded by general taxpayers, who are disproportionately high-income (the poorest pay the lowest % of their income in tax).

If you end the break, it will be borne in higher food prices, which is a burden disproportionately carried by the poor (the poorest spend the highest % of their income in food).

So who do you want to pay?

GeneralPeter · 21/11/2024 08:44

Noras · 21/11/2024 08:19

Farmers seem to think that no one else is aware of realities but we all are. We are all having to pay taxes and have less money.

I have a disabled son who will have to live on benefits and in supported living. There is zero mechanism to support him and not pay IHT. We have to pay for an expensive vulnerable trust so that what we do leave him after IHT is taken is protected from social care claw back .

Families are frantic about their disabled kids, literally waking up at 2am in cold sweats and there is no IHT support or tax free gifting.

So excuse me if I don’t weep for farmers leaving 3 million pounds IHT free and then only paying 20% tax rate with on instalments with zero interest where inflation will erode the debt.

My father’s estate had to pay out 1.5 million but I was one of 5 kids so got not much in comparisons to the tax man especially as due to care situation I could not work.

Now that I have social care for son I can finally get a job and hope to have a pension.

Maybe we should end the tax break.

But currently the tax break is funded by taxpayers.

End it, and the gap will be plugged by higher food prices.

Low income people are impacted by higher food prices more than they are by higher tax rates.

Prescottdanni123 · 21/11/2024 09:07

@Noras

Farming is a 24/7 job. Literally. They work extremely hard to feed this country and more often than not barely cover their costs. Many have constant money worries but they are stopping food production in this country from going to hell. They may not pay taxes in the same way, but they make a contribution that is just as important, albeit not in the same way.

OnceUponATimeInTheWest · 21/11/2024 11:56

Lollollol2020 · 20/11/2024 23:18

@OnceUponATimeInTheWest hard work doesn’t pay, however there are lots of us doing just that. We are fucked sideways every which way we turn to better ourselves… whatever your socio economic standing there is always someone on a higher rung to the ladder to you. What’s the point of shooting them down?

If someone is in favour of perpetuating an unfair system that massively benefits them and others like them at the expense of everyone else, then we shouldn’t just shrug and ignore it. We need to take them on and change it.

isthesolution · 21/11/2024 12:33

SilverBlueRabbit · 20/11/2024 19:03

I honestly think most people have completely missed the point.

The point is not that 'how come farmers were not subjected to IHT before now?'

The point is that NO ESTATE should be subjected to IHT. It's theft pure and simple. It's a tax on assets that have already been taxed, often several times over. Countries who did away with death duties tend to grow ion wealth overall, and certainly grow in wealth created by entrepreneurship.

And if you think that IHT only hit the rich, it does not. The threshold has not been raised for ages, so more and more estates are drawn in. £325 k is a very different animal in some parts of the country rather than others. A modest bedsit in London is well over. But also- every single estate is subject to IHT. Estates under a threshold are subjected to 0%. But the point is, it attracts a tax. It is much easier for governments to raise a tax that already exists than introduce a tax on estates that don't. So you think you are immune because your parent's estate is under £325 k? Nup. Maybe for now, but it's 0% rated for now, but next budget that may be raised.

I absolutely agree with this.

We are taxed on the money we make. We are taxed on saving that money. We are taxed on spending that money. And then when we die the government tax us again!

Morph22010 · 21/11/2024 13:42

Feelingathomenow · 21/11/2024 08:29

So you want to split the farm up? What about the out buildings? Shared driveways across the farm. Let’s check out the issues round utilities. Let’s check out the CGT position shall we, we will need to satisfy the business asset hold over relief conditions, so the whole business needs to go. What happens if the next generation dies or gets divorced. As I said no one thinks these things through.

Show quote history

You are completely missing my point I’m talking about “non farmers” being able to claim apr and get the automatic uplift to probate value for capital gains tax purposes so the next generation can then sell on the land and pay no or much reduced capital gains on a sale of land. For “proper” farming families the cgt uplift won’t matter if they don’t plan to sell the land anyway

Feelingathomenow · 21/11/2024 14:41

Morph22010 · 21/11/2024 13:42

You are completely missing my point I’m talking about “non farmers” being able to claim apr and get the automatic uplift to probate value for capital gains tax purposes so the next generation can then sell on the land and pay no or much reduced capital gains on a sale of land. For “proper” farming families the cgt uplift won’t matter if they don’t plan to sell the land anyway

Show quote history

So shouldn’t that be the point addressed eg extending BPR to working farms? Or limiting APR to cover those situations.

This legislation has clearly been designed by someone who has no knowledge of the countryside or it looks like, tax.

MrsJoanDanvers · 21/11/2024 21:55

isthesolution · 21/11/2024 12:33

I absolutely agree with this.

We are taxed on the money we make. We are taxed on saving that money. We are taxed on spending that money. And then when we die the government tax us again!

Show quote history

I think you’ll find that those other countries will tax residences differently as far as property and CGT is concerned. If you’re passing your home on, our threshold is much higher-and CGT has never been paid on those houses and the gains that have been made-and property tax is low in the UK.

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