Riders by Jilly Cooper - prequel to Rivals

[RedRobyn2021]

Decided to start listening to Riders by Jilly Cooper after watching Rivals

Quite shocked it's been written by a woman, the women are objectified, the men are rapey

Is it just me? Have you read it?

I looked it up and apparently Jilly Cooper wrote it in 1970, does this go some way to explaining why it's written like this?

I'm preserving with it, I'm on Chapter 13 but I think Rupert is a repulsive creep and can't understand why everyone is so obsessed with him

Yup.

I have not read it but was going to get it for dd. She won't like it from what people have said so I won't bother.
. Re 20 and 33 years old however, I don't think there is a always something wrong with age difference relationship.

He's 38 in the book and she's only 20

@FudgeSundae I might not carry on reading it, I saw in another comment it is Billy that does it which almost seems worse

Don't you find it odd how everyone thinks Rupert is great?

I haven't read one redeeming thing about him yet, he just seems completely grotesque but all they go on about is how handsome he is

All this book cares about it the way people look, like this holds all their value, it's toxic

That was honestly what life was like for women back then. You can be as outraged as you like but plenty of us actually lived through it.

I love JC and Rivals but of course it’s of its time.

I guess so

Thats what it was like for women and you love it?

I've had a few older relationship and it's been absolutely consensual and fine along with roughly my own age.
It's not always an abuse of power and nasty.

In the context of Rupert and taggie I've not read the book.

I've not read it yet either, but I watched some of the tv show and it's a bit weird

She comes across more like a teenager, she still lives with her mum and dad

Rupert has a kind of flirtation with Taggie's mum initially

It's weird

Although I agree that age gaps weren't always seen as problematic in the eighties, (Charles & Di / Bill Wyman and Mandy) I read Riders when I was still at school and couldn't understand for the life of me why the young showjumper had an affair with Billy who was so much older but maybe that was just me being a teenager. I also thought Rupert was loathsome I hoped he'd not make in to the end of the book. Weirdly, I'd forgotten the rape scene though.

Thinking about it, I'm surprised Rivals has been turned into a TV series. I've not read it, but assume it's more of the same. Never mind Me Too - claim it's an accurate depiction of the eighties and you can show the same old misogynistic shite.

@TheSecondMrsCampbellBlack

To be clear as well, I am outraged, I think it's disgusting

I guess I don't think of the 80s as being that long ago. There is bit in the book where this older man who initially seems like a father figure type, suddenly starts fantasising about Helen and what he'd like to do to her

It's disturbing

Rupert’s good points:

Devastatingly handsome
charismatic and charming
As rich as Croesus
very good at what he does, competitive show jumping or being an MP
Largely doesn’t care what people think
Kind but doesn’t show it always (buys the wood to help Declan)
loves animals
enormous erm house and penis
great in bed
laughs a lot
posh so a bit of a charmed life
accomplished, was in the Blues (I think?), good businessman, rider, pilot

clearly he’s also misogynistic, cruel, uncaring, chauvinist and plenty of other things but romantic heroes are often deeply flawed as well and he’s no exception. He’s of his time, as are the books

Have just finished rereading rival's on the back of watching series , which was really fun.I had forgotten what a rubbish book it was .Its not aged well thankfully a lot of the behaviours just aren't acceptable these days .But god I did recognise a load of the language and behaviours.
I worked as a waitress in the 80s in a hotel , saw so many affairs .I always thought it was quite a neglectful parenting generation but that might be my experience.

This is what I mean, it's strange they've turned it into a tv show now

It's romanising some really outdated and toxic stuff

I suppose like someone else has said, it's like a costume drama and of its time

I guess kind of like watching Downton in that we obviously wouldn't have the same attitudes now

I love the books and series, yes
and it is what it was like

so what?!

But anyway, I’m a fan, you're not, it’s fine, we can agree to disagree!

But that’s the message of Riders. Rupert is a shit and everyone knows it, but he’s rich, handsome, educated and powerful and gets away with it. That’s the whole premise of his character. You know you should hate him. He’s abhorrent. But like many absusers he’s handsome and charming and charismatic, and shows the odd drop of true kindness and humility. And that’s what lures you in. Like in real life.

The scene with him and Billy is awful, but again that’s the point if it. Even the nice kind ones can do it. And don’t even recognise it for what is was. And the reactions of them all afterwards. Just carrying on as normal. That’s what most commonly happens. It’s cleverly depicted. It was an important education for me as a teen.

And Rupert gets his comeuppance, and by the end of Rival’s he’s a somewhat reformed character. Thats the attraction. Until then, Rupert is Sexy, but awful. And it’s dear Billy or Jake who seems the better bet 🤷🏼‍♀️ but life isn’t that black and white. Billy was an overall good kind gentle man who did a very very bad thing. Rupert was an absolute shit, who could be very kind.

The TV adaptation of Rivals was very cleverly done. It’s in keeping with the book and the times. But skilfully updated to today’s market. The end scene of the series with Cameron and Tony is very different in the book. And I did wonder how they’d show that for today’s audience.

I guess reading them for the first time now though I might think as you do. I admit to finding them really nostalgic. And riders is one of my go to comfort reads.

You know the book that everyone was reading when I was a teenager was Twilight and everyone goes on about that being problematic, I loved it as a teenager

But I honestly think it has nothing on what Jilly Cooper has written

And the 80s were 40+ years ago, the world was different

Love your perspective, I am going to keep reading I think

@RedRobyn2021 if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you? Interestingly, the Rivals podcast said that in the writers room some younger writers wanted to sanitise some things and the older writers wanted to leave it in to be faithful to the time.

@RedRobyn2021 yes Twilight was extremely problematic. I’m probably 15 years older than you. I really enjoyed twilight when I read it. But will use it as a lesson for my own daughter in what an unhealthy relationship looks like. Additionally Stephanie Meyer was pushing a religious agenda on her audience. No sex before marriage and all that jazz. Anti abortion. Even if it means the mother dies 😞

Jilly Cooper is depicting a world 40 years ago, and demonstrating the sexism and abuse women encountered daily.

@TheSecondMrsCampbellBlack

I'm 33

I was 16/17 when I read Twilight

Were you a teenager in the 80s?

I need to talk to my mum more about it, she was in her teens/early 20s around then, she's probably read it

I’m finding everyone’s perspective really interesting. Nice to discuss. Thank you ☺️