Thread 11 Starmer: Will that Phone Call Be To Harris or to Trump? (the decidedly superior looking cats thread)

[BIossomtoes]

New thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5195566-thread-10-starmer-first-female-chancellor-delivers-the-budget?page=40&reply=139578573

I think the difference is that Starmer is tougher. He has a bigger majority, And he came in on a ticket which is renew public services, build, and taxing assets.

The perception of him as some sort of soft robot is wrong. He is a much tougher kind of leader. He is vicious with his own left wingers, and I don’t think he will be open to much compromise. He also doesn’t care very much on the usual metric about being liked.

The Conservatives are all screaming about class war etc but what they haven’t had in living memory is a Labour government which is driven by a man who built his career in the state. Who owes his success to it. With such a majority, what hope for the kind of compromises people are suggesting? They won’t get them.

Starmer’s aim is to say he has delivered in 4 years time. He isn’t going to spend time discussing Conservative voters needs. He knows they hate him. Look at the VAT position on schools. That tells you everything about how he thinks; he’s not going to compromise.

I am sorry to hear that.

I imagine it was a like a shockwave in the community especially as there is quite a bit of miscommunication/misinformation going on.

I was glad to hear your family isn't affected by the IHT.

And Labour is investing in farming

I think you’ve summed him up quite well. However his attack on business is not going to lead to the oft promised ‘growth’. People will be disincentivised and say what’s the bloody point.

I actually do understand. The last government's hounding of the disabled was very hard to bear for the disabled and carer's community and caused a lot of suffering, trauma and even suicide.

I don't think this government is hounding farmers in the same way. But I do feel this needs very careful handling and I really appreciate you might be feeling targeted and insecure. I don't think Starmer is closed minded and I have a feeling there will be a few twists, turns and tweaks before the IHT changes are made law.

@derxaI think that you have written some very strong words calling people venal petty liars. Are you happy with using these words, as venal is a very strong accusation?
I can sense your anger clearly coming through but honestly?
What are you actually dreading?
I'm another over 60 year old, add in to that Northern, no private pension of my own (although I am very fortunate to have a lovely retired husband) and I saw the decimation of the mining communities so I do have a little life experience.
I am absolutely convinced that Labour currently is our best hope , and, btw, I lost my winter fuel payment which was never meant to be permanent.
I would rather my younger family have a better chance of a good life than they were having under Johnson style Tories.
I hope your anxiety about things will lessen as the NHS begins to improve, along with other services.

How has he revealed that, exactly? By doing something which may affect you badly (but probably won’t, given all the actual information I’ve read)? That’s not small minded, that’s having different priorities. It’s not because he hates you.
Just FYI, mining communities were communities too. In fact, minus the mines they still are. They need the NHS to function.

What way?

Previous Labour governments had soft underbellies. Small majorities or Conservative economic policy (Blair and Broen).

If I were advising Starmer I would be going hell for leather on the bad decisions. Governments lose momentum. The first 18 months are the point when you set the stage for change and the rest of the time should be deliver deliver deliver.

The next stage is land pricing. This government wants to build. Starmer hasn’t even got new policies but unlike his predecessors he is prepared not to please everyone. The challenge that Labour are starting to put the Tories, which is part of all this is what would you do? Don’t like it, what’s the alternative? It’s a kind of Thatcherite approach - TINA - there is no alternative. But from Labour.

I'm afraid that derxa is coming across as a typical Tory - "but what about meeeee?"

No need for that, Bob.

Oh for goodness sake 🤣.

No, I don't agree and it's unfair on derxa.

The likes of Clarkson, Dyson, Lloyd-Webber, Earl of Derby, Lady Vyvyan, yes.

Change of subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/nov/20/diane-abbott-edward-leigh-urge-commons-reject-assisted-dying-bill

I am so on the fence about this I have splinters.

I’m on the fence about assisted dying too. I really don’t know what I think about it. I have sympathies with both sides. TRIP have done an interview with Kim Leadbeater so I’m going to listen to that when it becomes available.

I am pro. I have watched people die in agony from terminal illness. I would not wish it for myself, or anyone. Pre Shipman this did not happen so often. But there has to be a way where those people choose the manner of how they die.

Underneath the faux ethics debate, there is (yet) another layer of bureaucracy waiting to be created with the usual routes for cash for mates.

Effectively what people would get will be an approved suicide protocol, overseen by Capita. Unless Group4 are still around.

And I speak as someone who would have done anything to end my DMs life once she lost her mind and soul to vascular dementia.

I'm also unsure on the Assisted Dying Bill. Interestingly there is a Bill up for discussion this week that may impact upon this. The Terminal Illness (Relief of Pain) Bill which asks for written guidance on the use of pain relief. It is sponsored by Edward Leigh.
I wonder if he thinks that clear instructions on being allowed to use pain relief even if it's known it will hasten death will ease the urgency for the assisted dying bill.
Sebastian Salem does an interesting weekly newsletter listing everything going through the 2 Houses. Can sign up for it at Clear the Lobby.

I have sat with a loved one in a hospice and they were kept comfortable and pain free. If everyone had that option there would be little need for this Bill.
I think Wes Streeting has muddied the waters asking for an impact statement. He may well find that people choosing the option will save the NHS money and that really shouldn't enter the discussion at all!

If I were in a position to vote on Assisted Dying I would have to vote against. Too much leeway for disabled people to be harmed by it. That does not diminish the pain and anguish and appropriateness of it for many people. It’s just too open to manipulation for me at the current time.

This is exactly why I am on the fence about it, too.

I agree with you on the pain management,

Having seen my mum dying of cancer, knowing that she was in as little pain as possible was a huge comfort to us all.

I agree. I am pro with lots of safeguards. If you have ever seen someone beg, literally beg, for something to end their life because of what they're going through,(which I have) you do tend to err on that side.

https://bsky.app/profile/lizziedearden.bsky.social/post/3lbfa4he7ok2z

We have had a press briefing with senior police officers and commissioners about the ongoing investigations into the riots that followed the Southport attack

Here are the key updates:
🚨1,590 arrests, 1,015 charges
👮‍♂️17% of those arrested were children, 46% were 18-35 years old

At least 99 arrests (6%) were for online offences

That number could be higher, because of issues with the way data is recorded by police forces, but police say the vast majority of investigations relate to in-person disorder, violence and vandalism

The response has cost police £31.7m so far

Matt Jukes, the head of UK Counter Terrorism Policing, said:

"There's a legend which has emerged that the thought police were out arresting hundreds and hundreds of people for having opinions. And the reality is that they were arrested because of their suspected involvement in violence...

"...or criminal damage and direct harms in communities"

AC Jukes said people who "directly incited violence" have been convicted and will continue to be investigated, but that some disinformation and incitement after the Southport attack came from outside UK, including from hostile states

I have been through similar and had to make some very hard decisions for my loved one in order that their suffering was not needlessly extended. I really want people in that situation to be allowed to die.

But I am still on the fence because of the concerns my DH has expressed (he has a neurological condition which is degenerative, a type of MND).

It is so difficult.

Assisted dying is certainly difficult. It needs very stringent safeguards - but not so stringent that it’s still effectively banned. It being difficult isn’t a reason not to do it though. It just needs doing very, very carefully and with lots of advice from experts.