Friends with different values

[GettingThemFromHereToThere]

Do you maintain friendships with people with vastly different moral values?

I've made a new friend recently and we seem to click. Easy conversation, similar lifestyles and we live closeby which makes the friendship easy too. She's seemingly lovely in lots of ways.

But... she's quite a stanch evangelical Christian and has been open about her views about gay people. She thinks it's wrong as "that's what the bible says". When I probed further, she even admitted that she doesn't know if she'd support her own child if they grew up to discover they're gay, that she can't think about it. Her facial expression was as if I'd told her I had poo on my hand. I was shocked internally, having had many progressive and accepting Christian friends in the past, and I'm not sure what to do.

I have immediate family members who are gay and I love and accept them, their sexuality has never been a problem for me and it's just who they are. I also think it's dispicable that I'm today's world, with at least 1 in 10 people known to be gay/bi, that these views can be widely accepted in certain religions. It just doesn't have a place in a loving community, in my eyes and I would hate to be associated with homophobic views.

So as our friendship progresses, I'm wondering if this is a deal-breaker for me. She doesn't go on about it, but I know it's there now and her faith is a big part of her life.

Historically, I've taken a hardline and had a similar situation a few years ago with a non-christian friend who I stopped contact with over it. But I'm now a bit older and wondering if it's normal for friends to differ on opinions and values, and it's best just to not talk about it?

Would you continue a friendship with someone with vastly different moral values, if you got on well otherwise?

Interested to hear views and experiences.

How did she respond to YOUR views? Did you feel you could challenge her and say you don’t feel that way and you have family who are gay a wholeheartedly support them?

I'm quite a principled person (so my husband tells me) so I tend to flock together with like minded people, which I don't necessarily think is always a good thing but in my line of work it's pretty inevitable. I personally think being a good ally is really important so I think you should at the very least be very clear about your position and explain you have people in your life who are very important to you, etc. I don't think you'll be able to continue in the long term with this friendship, unless she starts to turn away from this bigotry. These kinds of views will inevitably affect your relationship as they will seep into all aspects of life. You can bet she has other bigoted views too.

Yes, she knows about my family member (came up previously for different reasons and in passing) and we had a little chat about how personally I accept people for the way they are and think everyone deserves real love.

She was fine to hear my views and we both accepted we differ and moved on to more light-hearted conversation. It was handled maturely and kindly by both of us.

But now, on reflection, it's not sitting right and I'm not sure if I should say something, let the friendship go, or just ignore and continue.

No, it I wouldn’t be friends with a ‘staunch evangelical Christian’, anyway, if her idea of arriving at an adult ethics is ‘because that’s what it says in the Bible’. That’s pretty much code for ‘I am completely under-informed’ about the history of a text I base my entire life, including my homophobia, on’.

I probably couldn’t be friends with someone who showed such open, physical revulsion about it or would want to disown their own children. If she wasn’t religious and using this as a reason for her beliefs and it was just plain old homophobia would you still want to be her friend?

I’ve quietly dropped friends for similar views. They seemed lovely and open for years then casually mentioned their children weren’t allowed to play at a Hindu’s house, Muslim only. No thanks. Religion as an excuse to hate isnt for me.

The friendship would have been dead for me the minute she expressed those views.

Exactly. Hardly “similar lifestyles” when the other person goes around full of hate for those they don’t know. Yuck!

I couldn’t be friends with anyone who thinks being gay is wrong and that potentially wouldn’t support their child if they were gay.

You don’t have to agree on everything in friendships but something like this would be a big problem.

I am gay and have historically been friends with 2 Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin.

However, I was able to actually respect their views. They were both very 'it is spoken against in the bible - as is divorce, sex outside marriage etc'. they had friends who were divorcees, presumably majority had pre-marital sex etc and they did not judge me or these other friends badly or any differently.

The physical revulsion and idea of rejection are her, not the bible. How is she around other 'sins'. Homosexuality is not seen as worse than all the others, people who treat it as worse are choosing to.

I couldn't be friends with someone who based their entire life on a fairy story.

It's a bit much to say you wouldn't be friends with someone who has a religion.

But yeah I couldn't be friends with someone who held homophobic views and who wouldn't love and support their own kids.

Where does OP say that this woman is full of hate for gay people?

The Evangelical folks I know (I'm atheist, so no skin in this game) definitely do not hate gay people. Some of them do think like OP 's friend and really struggle with homosexuality, but they are at pains to say that it's the act they're uncomfortable with, not the people.

I can't get my head round it and I'm appalled that their churches are still so backwards in this regard.

But those I know are in every other way, really good people (better than me, frankly). They've taken people in need into their homes for extended periods, they'd give anyone the shirt off their back, and they're people I know I can rely on in any situation. So no, I'm not with the 'I couldn't be friends with' posters.

(Obviously with the caveat that if they every treated a gay person badly, that would change. But I'm confident that they won't)

OP, I know that is hard to hear her say that she's not sure she could support her child being gay. But if my experience is anything to go on, I think she would. The child of one of my evangelical friends is trans. I'm not going to pretend that it's been easy for their parents. They've found it traumatic. But the family are dealing with it with grace and love for their child.

In short, no I would friend dump this woman. She's been respectful of your views, so I'd give the friendship time so you can get to know who she is beyond this one belief.

I have views pretty similar to yours on what I'd do with a gay child OP, but for example, I wouldn't affirm a child of mine who came out as trans, and I'm vocally GC on many areas of policy. (Obviously I would be supportive in other ways.) I'm grateful to those friends I have who disagree with me on that point, but have still stuck with me as a friend.

The rule of thumb for me is, do I feel I have to cover up my own values to maintain the friendship? I wouldn't feel able to be friends with someone where I couldn't say no I disagree. But I have plenty of "agree to disagree" friends.

Think of it this way: do you want them to only be friends with a bubble of only people who think being gay is a horrible sin? In my experience, having a diverse group of opinions is protection against going too far into extremist beliefs.

My experience is that "cancelling" people can become tedious, and lead to small bubbles of unquestioning people. I used to have a friend who would not accept different views on Brexit, party politics and a whole range of other issues. The eventual conclusion was that she was dull and not bright enough to withstand challenge.

Your friend may have these views about gay people. How might she change them? Being told she is wrong and being cut off probably wont do the trick. A good and trusting friendship where she knows this is an issue on which you disagree is more likely to help.

What are her views on trans people, and yours? I know life long friends who have fallen out because one believes strongly that transwomen are women whilst the other, that biological men have no place in women's jails and women's sport.

Openness and debate about different views are essential. Just dropping people because they have different views may cause them to dig in. And, say, run the risk of ending up with Trump as president.

Enjoy your friendship. Agree to differ. And, over time, encourage her to broaden her thinking.

That's so dismissive of people's beliefs.
You've basically written off friendship with the world's practising Hindus, Buddhists. Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, etc. etc.
Then again, perhaps they wouldn't want to be friends with you.

I think a great relationship can come from having differing views, respecting each other and listening and agreeing to disagree. This seems quite wonderful to me. However in practice I did let go of a friendship once as she spoke at me about her views which she always thought were right and wasn't vaguely interested in my stand point, in fact just got angry and shut down if I disagreed with her. I wish that we could have had more open conversations but it always felt so stunted and in the end it didn't feel like a great friendship to me so I walked away. I hope you can find a way with your friend as you seem to like her in many other ways.

I have Muslim friends who believe the same, but I suppose it doesn't come up often as I have no friends or family who are gay.
If I did I would side with my family I think, if it was directly causing issues, but I wouldn't cut off someone because I disagreed with them on one thing,no.

I honestly think to be a good ally it would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm today's world, with at least 1 in 10 people known to be gay/bi

I take this to mean more people are open about sexuality rather than more people are gay or bi?

Can I ask, do you have any Muslim friends? (serious question)

In many Muslim countries, homosexuality is illegal. If you speak to Muslims in this country, most of them hold views similar to your Christian friend.

Here is an interesting article written a few years ago by Rusi Jaspal, currently Professor of Psychology at Brighton University

https://theconversation.com/what-its-like-to-be-gay-and-a-muslim-61128

Nope, definitely not. I think you can be friends with someone who has a different lifestyle or different approach to life, maybe even different politics. But moral and ethical values are fundamental to who we are. I wouldn’t want to willingly share my time and space with someone who, because of their values, I felt was fundamentally not a good person. There are too many fish in the sea.

Another perspective here:

I have come out of a rather conservative evangelical background. If you'd asked me 30 years ago I would have said homosexual sex was sinful etc. I am quite embarrassed by some of the things I thought and did then although even then I would have still wanted to be accepting of all people and care for them etc.

Slowly over the years I have grown a quite different viewpoint. Part of this has been due to the friendship I have experienced from gay and lesbian people. Those who have accepted my then views as different to theirs graciously and lovingly. Another part has been my own pathway of reading and learning about alternative viewpoints of what the bible says. I am now inclusive in my views and have moved away from my original church. If conservative Christians with anti homosexual views live in a silo, only being friends with others that think the same, their views are likely to be reinforced and never challenged.

The challenge for me was not so much because people argued with me or told me I was wrong or thrust books in my hand that I should read etc. It came about because others were caring and accepting of me, even without me changing my views. I sought out most of the "alternative view" literature myself as I started to think about things.

My rethinking of faith is still ongoing ( I am still Christian) and I guess is likely to be a lifelong journey and has been formed by many other issues, not just attitudes to homosexuality but this has been a significant part.

From the op: I would hate to be associated with homophobic views.

Well, I understand perfectly well the situation, and was empathising with you right until I read the above sentence. In my opinion, what you expresses there is a rather childish behaviour: you don't want to be associated with people "guilty of wrongthink". What's the difference between that and the old school "oh, I like Mary but she's fat/ugly/smart/wears glasses and if I sit with her everybody will make fun of me"? If this is a true concern of yours (guilt by association), I believ you should grow up.

Having said that, I agree it can be difficult disagreeing in fundamental values. I find myself in a very similar situation with my best friend of ages regarding the sex/gender debate. We genuinely love eachother and haven't let this come between us. But it's true that we're like family. If I'd just met her, like in your case, I'd try to find the common ground with her, providing I liked her. But that's me. It's a very complex matter, OP, I agree.

"If conservative Christians with anti homosexual views live in a silo, only being friends with others that think the same, their views are likely to be reinforced and never challenged." - @EducatingArti

This is so true and your post gave me food for thought.