Friends with different values

[GettingThemFromHereToThere]

Do you maintain friendships with people with vastly different moral values?

I've made a new friend recently and we seem to click. Easy conversation, similar lifestyles and we live closeby which makes the friendship easy too. She's seemingly lovely in lots of ways.

But... she's quite a stanch evangelical Christian and has been open about her views about gay people. She thinks it's wrong as "that's what the bible says". When I probed further, she even admitted that she doesn't know if she'd support her own child if they grew up to discover they're gay, that she can't think about it. Her facial expression was as if I'd told her I had poo on my hand. I was shocked internally, having had many progressive and accepting Christian friends in the past, and I'm not sure what to do.

I have immediate family members who are gay and I love and accept them, their sexuality has never been a problem for me and it's just who they are. I also think it's dispicable that I'm today's world, with at least 1 in 10 people known to be gay/bi, that these views can be widely accepted in certain religions. It just doesn't have a place in a loving community, in my eyes and I would hate to be associated with homophobic views.

So as our friendship progresses, I'm wondering if this is a deal-breaker for me. She doesn't go on about it, but I know it's there now and her faith is a big part of her life.

Historically, I've taken a hardline and had a similar situation a few years ago with a non-christian friend who I stopped contact with over it. But I'm now a bit older and wondering if it's normal for friends to differ on opinions and values, and it's best just to not talk about it?

Would you continue a friendship with someone with vastly different moral values, if you got on well otherwise?

Interested to hear views and experiences.

You've totally misinterpreted me and ran with it. Why you'd pick that one line out of my post and assume that's what I meant, I don't know. And telling me to grow up? That's just rude, sorry.

Thanks everyone, some really interesting perspectives. I'll ponder on them.

I've known of Christians who have 'mellowed' and change their views as they age. I suspect this may happen here as she really does seem like a lovely woman in lots of ways, just following faith blindly in my view. I wonder if she's regurgitating her church's view rather than critically assessing the topic herself.

I don't know, i'll see how I feel over time...

The friends we choose are a reflection of ourselves.

The friend you've chosen is a homophobic bigot.

I wouldn't even have to ask myself if I should ditch the friendship, let alone have to ask Mumsnet.

And stop blaming religion for her homophobia for goodness sake! 🤬🤬

My entire family are Irish Catholics and there's not a single bigot or homophobe amongst them!

Catch yourself on.

I had a colleague who was a v devout catholic. I was quite open about the fact that my adult child was gay.

It was never an issue for us. In fact, this colleague once told me that, in their view, God was only interested in the fact that we loved. Not who we loved, just THAT we loved.

That comment has stayed with me for over 20 years. Because, if there is a God (I'm sceptical to the point of atheism) then it seems logical to me that what my colleague said, would be true.

But, then, logic and religion don't seem to me to be easy bedfellows.

"I wonder if she's regurgitating her church's view rather than critically assessing the topic herself."

What about your Muslim friends (do you have any)? Are they also "regurgitating" their religion's view rather than "critically assessing the topic"?

Irish Catholics aren’t ‘staunch evangelical Christians’ though?

I don't have any Muslim friends to be honest, not intentionally but I live in a very "white area" and with young children, have a limited social life at the moment. Can I ask why that's relevant?

My personal view, that I don't share with religious people, is that they usually only believe it because that's what they were taught to believe by their family or society at a young age. Now obviously there are a minority that come to the religion at an older age, but the majority are raised in these religious communities and therefore I do think most are just regurgitating why they've been told/what's acceptable in their community. Most religious settings don't encourage people to critically assess why they are preaching/teaching.

I'm sure that doesn't represent everyone, but yes, that's why I don't really believe this is her individual view. As her reasoning was that "the bible says it's wrong". To me, that indicates that she's blindly following others interpretation of texts, rather than thinking, for example "why would god make people who felt romantic feelings towards their own sex if god didn't want people to be gay". I mean, it's pretty torturous to make people gay and then not allow gay relationships.

Oh... ok then. Good luck anyway!

I have a friend with strong religious views and I was once also managed by one at work. In neither case did they push their views on me. In your case OP, your friend has not done so either, at least as far as your OP is concerned, so I don't see the problem. It seems its a concern for you that she thinks different things, and if so, you're being intolerant.

The person who immediately responded to your OP asking how she dared is wrong. She only responded to things that you in fact had raised.

I'm not religious, by the way.

I think most would say they don't believe it's right as behaviour but still love the person

No, I wouldn't. I have gay friends who I love.

Don't want no bigots in my life, thanks.

Most what?

I'm not someone who onsists all my friends have the same beliefs and values than me. But not accepting your ow child if they happen to be gay, that's disgusting and I could never respect someone who did that.

That sounds as if you're engaging in quite some mental gymnastics to make her repellently homophobic views not her views, so they don't really count because she's just reflecting her environment and teaching. Guess what -- she's an adult who lives in the world the same as the rest of us. In which case her homophobia is her homophobia. It's not some cutesy, unimportant side effect of believing an omnipotent deity made the universe in seven days and set up a random curiosity test for the first humans involving a snake and some fruit.

I'm interested in how cut and dried some people are here.

I have lots of interactions with people with whom I don't agree on things. I might tailor our interactions to avoid conflict, and I may keep those who I know disapprove of X or y at arms length in some cases, but I don't see there being any merit in just refusing to interact in a friendly way with people who have views or opinions you don't like.

We have neighbours with very different political views that I find pretty unpalatable for eg, but they're always maintaining the verges and putting out the older neighbour's bins - I can appreciate that they are not one dimensional and I'm happy to chat to them over the fence/in the street whilst also knowing we would absolutely disagree on wider social topics .

Those who see huge benefit in refusing to interact with those they seem bigots etc - how does that overall make the world a better place?

Yes, this! She has told you who she is. I couldn't be friends with a woman like that.

We have neighbours with very different political views that I find pretty unpalatable for eg, but they're always maintaining the verges and putting out the older neighbour's bins - I can appreciate that they are not one dimensional and I'm happy to chat to them over the fence/in the street whilst also knowing we would absolutely disagree on wider social topics.

Chatting over the fence is not akin to friendship, though?

It's a friendship of sorts.

That's my point. It's not an on/off question for me. You calibrate how much time you spend with people, on what terms and in what ways. You don't necessarily refuse to interact with them full stop - which is how some posters are responding.

I'm just not sure how society keeps functioning if we all take these hard line approaches to those we decide are 'bigots.'

We are all 3 dimensional characters and being a 'bigot' doesn't mean that we then don't have anything of worth to offer the people around us with whom we don't align on a specific set of views.

I have friends who are Christians who believe wives should obey their husbands and that lre marital sex is sinful (I don't), friends who are Muslim who think Halal slaughter is essential (I don't), friends who are Jewish who believe menstruation is unclean (I don't), I have family members who are catholic and oppose abortion (I don't), I have friends who send their children to grammar and private schools (I think these are morally wrong) etc etc.

I'm happy to challenge and discuss, I'm happy to advocate and state my views. But it is only the way that I live that I can influence and I don't think anyone stands to gain much by cutting out of your life anyone who doesn't have the exact same take as you do on every ethical, moral controversy.

It makes the world a better place for gay people, in this instance, by the OP's friend being made aware that someone who is genuinely fond of her finds her views repellent and is prepared to end a friendship because of them.

Let's not forget this is a woman who says she's not sure whether she could support her own children if they turned out to be gay. Because cherrypicking arbitrary tenets out of something written several thousand years ago in a very different civilisation is more important than the happiness of your own children.

The OP has challenged and discussed, by the sound of things. You've clearly chosen to continue to challenge and educate, and good for you, but other people may not want to spend their interactions with friends continually opposing and challenging anachronistic religious nonsense from any faith background.

I personally think you do better by any gay family members by building bridges and links, by continuing to have dialogue with people and giving them a window to your world - where your gay family members are loved, welcomed, cherished and included members of your family.

My DC combatted homophobic/heteronormative comments at school very easily and naturally, by drawing on their own experience of same sex relationships in our family. They didn't just refuse to play with the children making those comments.

Oh, I'm aware she's an adult, hence my post. I know she's responsible for her own opinions. I was answering someone who explicitly asked why I think she's regurgitating religious opinion.

I don’t know if I could maintain a friendship with someone like this- probably not, especially as one of my children is in a same sex relationship.

I do have friends with differing views, but less dramatically so. For example I have a friend who is anti-vax (all vaccines) and who freebirthed her children. She is anti-medicine and pharmaceuticals in general and the sort of person who thinks that cancer is caused by negative thoughts (which was hurtful to me personally as both of my parents died of cancer). She had some conspiracy views on Covid too. In her case, there is a history of trauma re medicine and Drs so I understand where it has come from. I don’t really respect her views but I do respect her right to hold them. We remain friends but avoid certain topics of conversation.

Again, that's your decision, and a valid one. But some people might feel it gives the message that homophobia is tolerable. I can imagine a gay teenager wondering why her mother still hangs out with an adult woman who is vocal about her homophobic views.

Are your children gay? I think there's a significant difference in the experience of combating homophobic or heteronormative comments if they're aimed at you, or if you're combating them on principle.

@Falalalalah I totally understand what you're saying and part of me agrees, hence my thread as I'm conflicted.

But I don't think people become more accepting through rejection. I don't think me ending the friendship will result in any change at all for her. However if we grow our friendship, I may offer her different perspectives. For example, when we were talking about it, I mentioned something along the lines of "I can't judge people who just want to live a life with genuine love, I can't imagine how hard living a lie would be". I saw it hit a nerve in her as I know she doesn't consider herself judgemental. I can see how exposure would be better than avoidance for her to change her views.

But, I'm not here to fix people. I wanted to make a lovely new friend but I also love my family member dearly and would hate for her to think I accept homophobia, because I absolutely don't.

It's really tricky. I'm leaning towards continuing the friendship but making sure my views are known if the topic arises again and I'll continue to talk about my family member and her gay relationship, and absolutely won't accept any faces or negativity.

Is she vocal about her homophobic views though? That's not what I got from the op.

I would feel differently about someone who made it their life's work to campaign on a homophobic platform than I would about someone with whom I disagree but we can avoid the conversation generally.

I'm not gay and my children have made no clear steers on their sexualities but I like the op have gay and lesbian friends and family who are loved, supported, and advocated for.

My point was more about the pp here who were so back and white about ending interactions with anyone who expressed a view they consider unacceptable. I'm just not sure real life works (or works well) like that.

I think the increase in these kinds of hard line means that we are generally less exposed to those whose opinions might counter and chase ours, and we are less tolerant and more polarised/tribal leading to more friction, not less.