Cows killed another poor dog walker

[Pippetypoppity]

I’ve just seen on the BBC news that a lady has been killed in a field by cows. She was walking her chihuahua. This is absolutely tragic. She possibly ran with dog and was chased. That would be my guess as the same happened to me on our farm when I was very young. Your instinct is to save your dog and run. I remember I had a sheep dog puppy in my arms and I’d gone into the field to play. I was about 6 I think. The cows noticed the puppy from quite a distance away and the whole herd started moving in. Luckily I was close enough to the gate to get out, but it was terrifying. I remember my father on the yard yelling ‘Drop the puppy’ at the top of his lungs. I didn’t but I’d have been a gonner if I was another 50 yards in. I just want to tell everyone what my father said to me that day. It’s stuck in my mind ever since and it’s important anyone who dog walks in the country knows it too

1. If you see cows with calves leave the field by the nearest exit immediately. Cows often charge to protect their young
2. If you see cows without calves and they start moving quickly towards you they are being inquisitive. If you have a dog with you the cows will want to know if it is a threat. They see dogs instinctively as predators. If you cannot get to a gate and they are approaching- startle them by shouting jumping, waving your arms and making yourself appear as loud, big and threatening as possible. This will frighten them and make them stop or bypass you.
3. If they persevere it will be because they want to force your dog out of the field. Let the dog go! This is critical. Your dog can run faster than cows and much much faster than you. The cows will then focus on the dog and you can get away.
4. Never ever pick up the dog if cows are refusing to back off. This is the hardest thing in the world to do as all your instincts will compel you to try and protect it. It stands a better chance running and dodging them however than it does in your arms. You will then avoid becoming a target yourself and being trampled.
5. When cows move quickly in a large group the ones at the front get pushed by the ones at the back even if they themselves try to slow down. They will not be trying to mow you down but the sheer force from behind might mean they do. For this reason if cows approach in a group and your initial efforts to threaten and scare them failed, make that momentum go in a different direction ie after your dog.

I am so so dreadfully sorry to hear that this has happened again. The lady in question was inevitably a devoted extremely responsible and loving pet owner. She must have been to have been giving her chihuahua a country walk. I expect for this very reason she picked her dog up when she saw the cows getting near. Poor poor lady.

i am still shocked at the attitude of a fellow school mum who complained that there were cows in the field on the public foot path,
she was going to complain to the farmer
i dont know the result but i do know for the last 10 years there have been sheep only on this walk

Cows need to graze

People need to walk

So how to ensure these needs can be met as safely as possible?

• advise to people about how to behave - still a lack of knowledge it seems
• easy exits from all fields and paths - no barbed wire please
• farmers to be considerate about placement when bulls or calves are present ( most are )

What else ?

I haven’t noticed this being suggested on this thread.
many posters, myself included, think that a fenced footpath should be provided.

Agree.

The only other thing I’d add is Farmers to keep their footpaths well marked. Some (only some) actively remove signs, styles etc - it just means walkers can inadvertently stray with no ill intent causing more issues as they try and work out the right of way.

Most farmers and most walkers are reasonable people (despite the comments by a few in here). It’s perfectly possible to rub along together.

@Twoshoesnewshoes crackofdoom wrote just that.

The cost of providing fenced and enclosed footpaths would not only be prohibitive for livestock farmers but would by definition carve up fields and potentially limit access to drinkers etc and the ability to move animals.

Most countries do not have a network of public footpaths crossing working private farms. The UK is incredibly lucky to have this access.

Scotland doesn't have a network of paths

It ( unlike other areas of the Uk) is incredibly lucky that you can basically walk where you like ( some restrictions on gardens and a huge amount of responsibility not to do damage )

It was a facetious response to someone suggesting that walkers should never go in fields with livestock, as I suspect you know full well 🙄

I would also contest the assertion that the cost of fencing is prohibitive, given that I see a lot of cows round here enclosed into small areas of fields with electric fencing, presumably an experiment in mob grazing.

I think most farmers could afford an electric fence or two- if they wanted to.

But, in terms of avoidance of incidents, it's tricky, because most cattle are fine. And some are fine- until they aren't. However, it seems that where cows have hurt or killed walkers, there have often been warnings that have been ignored. So, perhaps an easy- to- use, well publicised reporting app from the HSE? Somewhere it can be transparently logged that particular cows have caused a problem 🤔

There are also some sensitive areas where CRoW access is suspended for dogs (where there are otters for example). I'm wondering if this could happen for footpaths? The criteria would have to be quite strict though, otherwise farmers would be applying for it all the time 🙄. (And also, a good proportion of attacks don't involve dogs at all).

There's no doubt that some breeds are more aggressive than others. The only time I've ever been properly chased it was by a breed with a reputation for aggression (Ayrshires). But I don't know if this is consistent enough to be putting restrictions on certain breeds. There's already a restriction on putting lone dairy bulls, as opposed to beef, in a field with a footpath, as dairy breeds are supposed to be more aggressive.

Agree, at least if we have to run and roll under the fence/hedge let us not be lacerated with barbed wire. Honestly, just at the bottom keep clear of it so that we can roll under, that would be fab.

@crackofdoom, I didn't appreciate that your response was "facetious", probably because the advice to not walk your dogs in a field with cattle is hardly controversial or necessarily unreasonable.

Re electric fencing, I can only assume you've never actually set up and maintained electric fencing for large livestock in the middle of big fields.

Farmland isn't countryside. Farmland is at odds with much of conservation and the protection of our wildlife.

Just think about bees and other insects. Without farmers and their pesticides, they'd be in a much better position.

No, I certainly have never set an electric fence up, but given- as I said above- that farmers seem to be able to manage it with ease when it benefits them, if you're having problems with it, perhaps farming isn't the ideal career for you? 🤔

I've walked through several fields that have electric fencing set up both alongside the edge and also leaving a decent walkway through the middle.

Farmers can even apply for a government standalone capital grant to set up permanent electric fencing

www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/permanent-electric-fencing-fg3
Or permanent fencing:

www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/fencing-fg1

So if they are aware of a landslide or other hazard they have to allow access and risk a member of the public seriously injuring themselves or even dying?

Cliff slides are quite common around the coastal paths especially. If there is a slip, the councils will be out very quickly to check for risk, and re-route the path as necessary. Happens regularly, and is a slick process. The footpath is very rarely closed, just moved.

It’s not unusual to see footpath diversion signs where this occurs.

I doubt our local council will be rushing out to some of the rarely used paths in my rural neighbourhood. They are currently allowing housing developments across a huge amount of land locally. The dog walkers and day outers will soon have wonderful tarmacced paths to walk along. All hazard free. Not much of a view though.

Also with the increased incidence of flooding several riverside paths have been permanently rerouted through local housing estates after dangerous bank loss.

From memory, Great Britain (to be precise) stopped being self-sufficient in food around the 1830s. One of the purposes in establishing colonies was to provide a source of food (and offload surplus population.)

Emigration to those places, and farming, was encouraged by the British government (some of my ancestors were soldier-farmer-settlers.)

The reason for my original comment is that it's not a good idea to take a dig at someone from an ex-colony about stolen land without acknowledging the reason for the stealing!

Then I guess the UK isn’t civilised because we have plenty of prow though farmland and will continue to do so. And we’re happy with that for the most part (except for resentful farmers, meh)

But the footpath hasn’t been lost - and that’s because they are heavily protected in law. Yes, it’s crap the paths now go through housing estates - but the housing estates had to keep those footpaths. Rubbing out the paths seem to be the one thing that builders can’t get away with!

This footpath was a boundary one that went around the field, not through. It appears to have been a freak encounter between Ms Morris and one cow.

“The court was told that the public footpath was marked by “yellow posts”, or waymarkers, which followed the boundary of the field off Riverside Way.
Guy Hutton, the farm-owner’s son, said Ms Morris was found lying injured far away from the designated footpath.”
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/cows-field-where-woman-died-154242265.html

I think it’s important, because of so much confusion on this thread that I qualify a few things. I really didn’t mean to scare or upset anyone and I’m incredibly sorry if I did. I just wanted to give some sensible, helpful advice. Can I please add -

1. Not all cows are the same. Like not all dogs are the same. Dairy cows are very used to being handled and usually really docile. They won’t ‘attack’ people. They just in very rare cases might crowd round a bit out of nosiness or occasionally take exception to a dog. If that happens shouting waving and hullabaloo spooks them away no problem.
2. Young cattle are potentially more volatile. You can tell them easily - they won’t have full udders and they’ll be generally more active. They can be more inquisitive. Again hullabaloo is usually effective. They might possibly continue to object to your dog tho and if they are not convinced by your shouts and jumping, you must let your dog off leash and let it run away. The cattle will follow it and just ignore you. Their instinctive concern is to see off the ‘wolf’.
3. Farmers will know their animals. They are required to ‘risk assess’ where they go according to how they are going to behave. It isn’t necessary to avoid fields with cows when wanting to access a footpath. Use the simple strategy I’ve outlined in previous posts and you will be safe enough.

It’s about having the right information , the right understanding and not doing the wrong things. I really just wanted to make that available. My sincere apologies if I have made anyone feel unsafe in the countryside. It’s lovely to see folk out enjoying our beautiful outdoors. I don’t miss a day thanking my lucky stars I’m in the middle of it. Its really important everyone gets the chance to escape and get back to nature as it’s the very best way to recharge and ‘soothe the soul’. You’ll be absolutely safe and able to enjoy it all to your heart’s content if you just keep my bits of advice at the back of your mind in case the very very very unlikely happens.

Clearly the only sensible approach is to carry a remote controlled decoy dog at all times in the presence (or potential presence) of cattle. Patent pending.

(On a serious note, much sympathy and condolences to the poor lady and her loved ones)

It happened to us years ago - they were after the dog - we were trying to protect our dog but now realise that was stupid - we all survived and the picture of my sedentary old man leaping over a 5 barred gate has stayed with me till today!
Condolences to the family of the lady.

@LoremIpsumCici said:

"This footpath was a boundary one that went around the field, not through. It appears to have been a freak encounter between Ms Morris and one cow.

“The court was told that the public footpath was marked by “yellow posts”, or waymarkers, which followed the boundary of the field off Riverside Way.
Guy Hutton, the farm-owner’s son, said Ms Morris was found lying injured far away from the designated footpath.”
uk.news.yahoo.com/cows-field-where-woman-died-154242265.html"

Perhaps the poor girl had tried to outrun the cow and would therefore not be near the designated footpath. If it was barb-wired too from top to bottom she may not have been able to climb over the nearby fence.

Another poster mentioned that farmers should not place barbed wire at the bottom so people can escape if necessary. Though I would prefer cows to be electric fenced off as they are quite terrifying when they run en masse.

Or her dog dashed off and she went after the dog to keep it from a cow…..
It’s tragic and seems like a freak occurrence as in not her fault.

An electric fence with the voltage to sting a cow could kill a small human, would that be an improvement?

What?! No it couldn't!!

(Source: juvenile fucking around and finding out )